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  • FIRST POST
    • redcatt
    • By redcatt 13th Jun 19, 3:23 PM
    • 5Posts
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    redcatt
    F1rst Parking - college permit
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 19, 3:23 PM
    F1rst Parking - college permit 13th Jun 19 at 3:23 PM
    Hi there, please be kind 1st post,

    My Son managed to get a PCN( on the windscreen) from college car park for Parking without Valid parking ticket/Permit.
    He did have a valid parking ticket.
    He attends the college for blocks weeks at a time for his apprenticeship, this PCN was issued on his 4th block week attending college.
    I went on the website to appeal, they have replied requesting name & address of the driver, I understand I do not have to give the details. They have pictures of the car which displays the parking ticket. Also a picture of the Tariff but no where on it says if you fail to display what the penalty would be?
    Now I have received a NTK (if I am understanding the POFA correctly) it says it should state on the NTK the details of the amount for payment within 14 days & should be 40% of the full charge.
    I have contacted the F1rst parking again requesting a POPLA reference no , as they have not replied to my appeal but keep replying asking for driver details.
    Also I emailed the college and have said they cannot help
    Unsure what to do now.
    Also received and email from F1rst Parking "if driver details not received by 18th June they will invoke keeper liability"
    Last edited by redcatt; 13-06-2019 at 3:59 PM. Reason: extra info
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Jun 19, 3:32 PM
    • 25,070 Posts
    • 40,396 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 19, 3:32 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 19, 3:32 PM
    I went on the website to appeal
    Are you the registered keeper?

    they have replied requesting name & address of the driver, I understand I do not have to give the details.
    Ignore that, no obligation.

    They have pictures of the car which displays the parking ticket.
    Do you mean the day ticket/permit to park, or the parking charge issued by F1rst Parking?

    Can you give us the date of the parking incident and the Date of Issue shown on the NtK?

    Have you taken photos of your own of the signage, a wide-angle showing general layout of site and distribution and height of signage, plus close ups where the precise wording of the signs can be read.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • redcatt
    • By redcatt 14th Jun 19, 11:51 AM
    • 5 Posts
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    redcatt
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 19, 11:51 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 19, 11:51 AM
    My husband is the registered keeper.
    My son paid the daily parking ticket.
    Date of incident was 1/5/19 NTK date 31/5/19
    I haven't taken photo's but on there website there are pictures & shows only the Tariff charges but nothing on what the penalty would be for that site.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Jun 19, 7:21 PM
    • 25,070 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:21 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:21 PM
    My husband is the registered keeper.
    It is your husband who should be handling this. You can do the work on it, but it must be under his name - all the way through. In whose name was the initial appeal made?

    Date of incident was 1/5/19 NTK date 31/5/19
    With a windscreen ticket, the dates seem in order to invoke keeper liability - BUT, the rest of the NtK needs to be checked meticulously against PoFA. Does it, for example, have a PoFA warning paragraph. If so, what exactly does it say (no paraphrasing, exact wording).

    I haven't taken photo's but on there website there are pictures & shows only the Tariff charges but nothing on what the penalty would be for that site.
    You need them, the signage is the purported contract between the driver and PPC. Get them ASAP, you will need them if this gets to court. Read the BPA Code of Practice to check how a private car park should be signed.

    Also received and email from F1rst Parking "if driver details not received by 18th June they will invoke keeper liability"
    Let's see how they fare on that front. Prepare to develop a POPLA appeal by reading the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 - good preparation, best chance of a good result.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • redcatt
    • By redcatt 15th Jun 19, 7:34 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    redcatt
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 19, 7:34 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Jun 19, 7:34 PM
    I completed the initial appeal on their website, can this be changed?
    NTK states;
    You are notified under paragraph 8(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. As we do not know the drivers name or current postal address, if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address of the driver ans pass this notice to them. You are advised that if, after 29days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the date issued), the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you. This Notice is given to you under Paragraph 8(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act. Should you provide an incorrect address for service, we may pursue you for any Parking charge that remains unpaid. Should you identify someone, who denies they were the driver, we may pursue you for any Parking Charge amount that remains unpaid.
    Just a quick question In paragraph 8 (2) they have not stated (g) ?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jun 19, 10:54 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 19, 10:54 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Jun 19, 10:54 PM
    8(2)(g) inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;
    They don't have to offer a discount to the keeper in a case where there was a windscreen PCN that already offered it.

    I completed the initial appeal on their website, can this be changed?
    No. Do you mean you did it in your name, even though you were not the named person on the NTK and you were neither the keeper or driver?

    Or do you mean you appealed in your husband's name as keeper?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • redcatt
    • By redcatt 16th Jun 19, 5:45 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    redcatt
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 19, 5:45 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 19, 5:45 PM
    When I completed the appeal on their website I did it in my name, & I am not the driver nor the keeper.
    Have now got photo's of the signage at the carpark entrance,also there are several all around & it does state the penalties although it is pretty small text it states;

    Not clearly displaying a valid permit OR a pay & display ticket face up in the windscreen.

    The photo from their website at the site where the car was parked says the same but no penalty advise.
    & if you were entering the carpark first thing in the morning when busy, could possibly be a little difficult to read?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Jun 19, 6:47 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 17th Jun 19, 6:47 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Jun 19, 6:47 PM
    When I completed the appeal on their website I did it in my name, & I am not the driver nor the keeper.
    Why would anyone do that? You can't appeal, you are a stranger to the matter.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • redcatt
    • By redcatt 17th Jun 19, 7:15 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    redcatt
    • #9
    • 17th Jun 19, 7:15 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Jun 19, 7:15 PM
    Well thank you for your advice
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Jun 19, 7:25 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,713 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I'm not being flippant, it was a rhetorical question and meant to alert you to how serious this is now. I really meant, why would someone else do an appeal for any sort of parking ticket when the only liability possible (whether private or Council PCN) is for a driver/keeper.

    The point is, no appeal has been received, at all.

    Therefore no POPLA code will be given, no reply at all.

    What did you write exactly, word for word?

    Who was the NTK addressed to and is there time for the keeper to appeal?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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