Employed by a US company - Living in the UK

Hi All,
First post here - not sure where else to turn. I have had several conversations with people at HMRC but to my dismay, I keep getting contradicting information. Someone must have been in my position before! I'm a dual US/UK citizen. I was born in the UK, but have lived most my life in the US. I now live back in the UK. I have had a 'normal' PAYE job for the past 5 years in the UK which is fine. I have now been offered a job by an American firm. I would effectively be working for this company just as anyone else in the US would, but for the most part, I'd be working from home in the UK (with quite a bit of to and from travel to the States). I would be paying tax in Washington State (although there is no state income tax there). Does anyone know what my liablility to HMRC is? Currently I have to fill out a tax return to the IRS every year but don't have to pay anything to the IRS because we have a tax agreement with the States. I'm very confused and can't work it out!


Cheers!
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Comments

  • agrinnall
    agrinnall Posts: 23,344 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker
    There are thousands of people in the UK working for US companies based in Washington State, including Microsoft and Amazon, and I'd wager that almost none of them are paying their tax in Washinton State, so I have to wonder why you think you will be. They pay their tax in the place it is earned, the UK, and if they are US citizens they may need to pay some additional tax in the US on worldwide earnings if it's not fully covered by dual taxation agreements between the US and the UK.
  • EdSwippet
    EdSwippet Posts: 1,588 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    In short, no substantial changes compared to your previous PAYE job.

    We can ignore state tax issues because Washington state levies no income tax, but even if it did you would qualify as non-resident provided you don't live or spend much time there. That leaves you US federal tax and HMRC to deal with.

    Under Article 14 of the US/UK treaty, primary taxing rights fall to the country of residence, so (presumably) the UK. Because of the US's nasty "saving clause" in Article 1 Para 4, as a US citizen you then have the pleasure of filling out a US tax return, claiming either a Foreign Tax Credit for UK tax paid or the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE) for UK salary, with the likely outcome that this wipes out any actual US tax liability. Same as your old job there, then.

    Now, the tricky part is to get this to happen without being in the PAYE system.

    If your company has a UK presence, becoming an employee of that is by far the simplest way forwards; you're done. If it really has no UK presence then it won't be able to handle UK payroll, UK tax PAYE, UK NI, and so on, and this could produce some difficulties.

    One way around these difficulties would be for you to form a one-person UK corporation and have your US employer pay that as if a contractor, then you can handle UK PAYE and NI from your corporation. The wrinkle with that is US tax law, which pushes a lot of expensive tax reporting onto 'Controlled Foreign Corporations', which yours would be (Google "IRS CFC paperwork" and weep!). A one-person US corporation might be easier from the US tax perspective, but probably hard to open as a non-US resident. Or you can probably handle this through normal HMRC Self Assessment and perhaps some direct Class 1 NIC payments to HMRC. Armed with this set of options, HMRC really should be able to advise on suitable routes here.

    Finally, you will want to pay close attention to how much time you spend in the US. Anything more than around 30 days in the US and you lose the ability to claim the FEIE (it requires at least 330 days of non-US residence in the year). That 36th day in the US could prove very expensive, then. Again, this was potentially already the case with your previous PAYE job, if you claimed the FEIE on that salary.

    After five years in the UK, I assume that you are well aware of the US tax pitfalls of using perfectly vanilla UK accounts and investment vehicles such as ISAs, pensions, non-US domiciled unit trusts or ETFs, OEICs, and so on.
  • js90
    js90 Posts: 2 Newbie
    Well this company has absolutely no UK presence. I will be an employee of this company just like any other company who works in their offices in Washington State. It just so happens that I will be working in my home remotely. My affairs in the US are all in Washington State and I 'live' there as far as the US is concerned - all my US bank accounts and tax affairs go through my parents house out there as I no longer live there. This job has nothing to do with the UK, besides the fact I will be resident here. I will be paid in USD into my US bank account and be an employee just like I was living there, but will be working from my home here. Hopefully that clears it up.
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
    js90 wrote: »
    ... This job has nothing to do with the UK, besides the fact I will be resident here....

    It's your residence that is the issue.

    My advice would be, get an accountant.

    As far as I can see, based on the following discussion;
    https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2013/07/17/310691/personal-paye

    if the employer has no tax presence in the UK it is unable to operate PAYE. It is therefore your responsibility to register to pay tax through self-assessment. You may well be entitled to double tax relief if your employer is deducting US taxes.
  • EdSwippet
    EdSwippet Posts: 1,588 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    js90 wrote: »
    Well this company has absolutely no UK presence. ... Hopefully that clears it up.
    Not really, no.

    You pay tax primarily to the UK because you reside here. You are also subject to US tax because you are a US citizen, but you avoid double-tax through either the FEIE or because the US has to give FTC credits for UK taxes paid.

    As antrobus says, it's your residence that matters here. The location of your employer isn't relevant (except that if it is non-UK you are left having to sort out UK tax, NI, PAYE etc on your own). If you don't want to pay UK tax on this employment income then you'll have to stop living in the UK. No other way around it.
  • Cook_County
    Cook_County Posts: 3,085 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    The employer would have to comply with local English or Sottish employment law. The employer may have a corporate tax liability. Your position would be largely unchanged unless you have US workdays, because income attributable to US workdays would be US source; but the employer would doubtless withhold Federal & State tax on US source income.
  • js90, (and everyone here),

    I have the exact same situation. I have dual citizenship, have been living and working in the UK for the last 7 years for a UK based company. I know have the opportunity to work here in London for a US based company w/out a UK presence. Can you advise what you ended up doing? I've been searching for days w/out luck.

    Cheers!
  • Hi all,
    I’m employed under NY law by a company based in the US. I live and work remotely in the UK. for this company. (They are not a subsidiary in UK) Can anyone advise on whether my employer is required to have some kind of pension scheme for me? I am the only employee outside the US and totally stuck for info!
    Thanks
    Nick
  • Nik83 wrote: »
    Hi all,
    I’m employed under NY law by a company based in the US. I live and work remotely in the UK. for this company. (They are not a subsidiary in UK) Can anyone advise on whether my employer is required to have some kind of pension scheme for me?

    As far as I can see, the answer is yes, assuming you're between 22 and state pension age. (Outside that age band, auto-enrolment isn't a requirement.)

    Document from the Pensions Regulator.

    Note page 7, para 13:
    The final point to note about the definition of worker in paragraph 9 is that the physical location of the employer is not a determining factor when considering an individual’s status as a worker, eg the employer may be based outside the UK.
  • Hi! I wanted to see if you ever figured all of this out? I am embarking on the exact same journey and it is a mess and could really use some firsthand insight if you have it! THANK YOU!!
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