Electric cars

g60jet · 10 July 2018 at 2:24PM

We swapped to a Tesla in March 2017, it's an amazing car. Our petrol bill is now zero from £80 and our electric bill went up by about £30 thats about £1 a day. plus we got free supercharging away from home with a referral code, and you can use mine http://ts.la/nigel5844

We now use bulb as our green energy supplier and you can get £50 credit free with this link [URL="ttp://bulb.co.uk/refer/nigel4566"]http://bulb.co.uk/refer/nigel4566 [/URL] They paid off our exit fees too.

We've not looked back and all you need to do is plug the car in at night and you have a full battery every morning, no scrapping ice off the screen. pre heated or cooled. and the best bit is it's so quiet you can talk normally to the kids in the back etc.

Martyn1981 · 11 July 2018 at 6:55AM

Tesla to open Shanghai electric car factory, doubling its production

Tesla is to open a new electric car production plant in Shanghai, its first outside the US, chief executive Elon Musk said from the city on Tuesday.

The new auto plant is slated to produce 500,000 cars a year, taking Tesla!!!8217;s total global manufacturing capacity to 1m vehicles a year. Most automotive factories are tooled to produce 200,000 to 300,000 vehicles a year.

The Shanghai municipal government welcomed Tesla!!!8217;s move to invest not only in a new factory in the city but also in research and development. It suggested it would help with some of the capital costs saying it would !!!8220;fully support the construction of the Tesla factory!!!8221;.

Volkswagen Group Pushes Into China With New Partnerships To Advance Electric Vehicle Tech

Volkswagen Group CEO Dr. Herbert Diess shared that the new partnerships are a part of an overarching plan for China, stating that, !!!8220;the Volkswagen Group will strengthen its position in China!!!8217;s important market by systematically expanding its partnerships there.!!!8221; The Volkswagen Group is putting its money where its mouth is, with plans to invest !!!8364;15 billion for new ventures in the lucrative country through 2022 that will be fed into both local investments and new research and development efforts.

Uxb · 11 July 2018 at 7:30AM

g60jet wrote: »

We swapped to a Tesla in March 2017, it's an amazing car. Our petrol bill is now zero from £80 and our electric bill went up by about £30 thats about £1 a day. plus we got free supercharging away from home with a referral code,

Jeez how many times do we have to go over this
You Tesla costs around £65000
My last ICE car cost me £1100 and I expect to get another £80 to 90K miles out of it.
I can put a lot of petrol in this car, do a lot of cam belt changes on it to get to the upfront capital cost or PCP cost of a Tesla.
The extra cost of the petrol used is a total and utter irrelevance at this price differential between electric and ICE.
Yes I know Tesla' are nice - I know two people who have them - they also have an ICE car of course.

I mean at this price differential I could even simply scrap my car ever year - forget about the servicing and MOT and just buy another one at £1000 odd each year for the next 10 years and still be quids in.

Martyn1981 · 11 July 2018 at 7:34AM

Uxb wrote: »

Jeez how many times do we have to go over this
You Tesla costs around £65000

Sorry to go over this yet again but -

The Tesla S is a similar price to new ICE cars in the same luxury saloon segment.

Nobody builds new second hand cars, so you need to compare like for like.

New EV's are cheaper than ICE's when all running costs are taken into account.

Expect old EV's to be cheaper than old ICEV's when they are of a similar age, and all running costs are taken into account.

Stageshoot · 11 July 2018 at 8:21AM

Uxb wrote: »

Jeez how many times do we have to go over this
You Tesla costs around £65000
My last ICE car cost me £1100 and I expect to get another £80 to 90K miles out of it.
I can put a lot of petrol in this car, do a lot of cam belt changes on it to get to the upfront capital cost or PCP cost of a Tesla.
The extra cost of the petrol used is a total and utter irrelevance at this price differential between electric and ICE.
Yes I know Tesla' are nice - I know two people who have them - they also have an ICE car of course.

I mean at this price differential I could even simply scrap my car ever year - forget about the servicing and MOT and just buy another one at £1000 odd each year for the next 10 years and still be quids in.

But not everyone wants to drive around in a POS that breaks down every few weeks.

Some of us rely on cars to do many 10s of thousands of miles a year for work, and cant be living with a hope and a prayer banger.

Nobody is saying you have to change to an EV, if you are happy having your head under the bonnet changing rubber bands and mopping up oil leaks that is your choice.

But for many the economics are EVs are cheaper, For me a Tesla would not work as the depreciation would be too steep with the miles I add each year but for some its the perfect fit.

For me EVs save money as I dont have to pay Congestion Charge or Parking in London or the fuel to London, (Total of about £100 a day each day).. And with those miles I would not roll the dice and play bangornomics like you do, but if it works for what you do thats great.. For others is does nor.

silverwhistle · 11 July 2018 at 10:54AM

I think we're back to your previous point about high mileage drivers:

The quicker this sector can be moved to EV the quicker a decent supply of cheaper second hand EVs will appear in the sales channels.

I've never had a new ICE car either. I can understand Usb's point but the use of Tesla as an example is a bit misleading. When more Zoes (with owned batteries!), 30kWh LEAFs, Ioniqs, Konas and the like become available hopefully increasing numbers of ex-company/PCP cars will become cheaper.

I see Skoda are developing EVs and ISTR mention of the Citigo, so EVs appear to be developing as you would expect, with a wider range of vehicles for different markets, just like ICEs. It'll be a long time before they produce something for the niche that is AdrianC..

Martyn1981 · 11 July 2018 at 11:05AM

Interesting article on the impact of Tesla on luxury brand sales. Personally the take away for me, was that these companies (Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Lexus) can all build excellent cars, so they will probably respond sooner rather than later and start pouring out serious volumes of EV's. That will be good for all, with EV's in all the major markets then and volumes increasing, costs reducing.

Tesla On Track To Pass Porsche In Annual Vehicle Sales In 2018

AdrianC · 11 July 2018 at 11:19AM

silverwhistle wrote: »

When more Zoes (with owned batteries!), 30kWh LEAFs, Ioniqs, Konas and the like become available hopefully increasing numbers of ex-company/PCP cars will become cheaper.

Yep. Battery leasing confusion has not helped the used "realistic" EV market one bit.

I see Skoda are developing EVs and ISTR mention of the Citigo

The Citigo (and Seat Mii) is just a rebadged VW Up!, so the surprise is more why it hasn't been available before, given that the e-Up! has been on the market for four and a half years. They did trail an e-Mii last year, but it's not hit showrooms. Can't think why.

Oh, wait. VW have sold <200 in the UK in that time. Mind you, the fact it's twice the price of a normal Up! probably doesn't help.

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/volkswagen_e-up

It'll be a long time before they produce something for the niche that is AdrianC..

Not at all. Something at a price point that realistically competes with the sort of cars that people actually buy, while offering a real-world range that allows for perfectly common daily mileages without having to arrange or extend the day around the hunt for charging.

Is that too much to ask?

The Leaf and Zoe come very close, especially with the larger battery packs, and Hyundai are definitely on the right lines with the Ioniq - yet every single Ioniq I've seen on the road has been the hybrid.

almillar · 11 July 2018 at 12:21PM

Not at all. Something at a price point that realistically competes with the sort of cars that people actually buy, while offering a real-world range that allows for perfectly common daily mileages without having to arrange or extend the day around the hunt for charging.

Is that too much to ask?

Again, I think you live in a 'high mileage' bubble, that your driving pattern is very a-typical of driving in the UK.

The Leaf and Zoe come very close, especially with the larger battery packs, and Hyundai are definitely on the right lines with the Ioniq - yet every single Ioniq I've seen on the road has been the hybrid.

Hyundai can't keep up with demand for the pure EV, or don't want to build as many as people want to buy. If the Leaf and Zoe (both 40kWh) are very close, you'll be straight down to the Nissan dealership for the 60kW Leaf, the Hyundai or Kia dealerships for the 60kWh Kona or Niro, or the Renault dealership for the next Zoe, if the capacity goes up ;-)

zeupater · 11 July 2018 at 12:24PM

Uxb wrote: »

Jeez how many times do we have to go over this
You Tesla costs around £65000
My last ICE car cost me £1100 and I expect to get another £80 to 90K miles out of it.
I can put a lot of petrol in this car, do a lot of cam belt changes on it to get to the upfront capital cost or PCP cost of a Tesla.
The extra cost of the petrol used is a total and utter irrelevance at this price differential between electric and ICE.
Yes I know Tesla' are nice - I know two people who have them - they also have an ICE car of course.

I mean at this price differential I could even simply scrap my car ever year - forget about the servicing and MOT and just buy another one at £1000 odd each year for the next 10 years and still be quids in.

Hi

So, in a nutshell you're really arguing against all new vehicles because you either can't afford to buy new or don't want to have a fast depreciating asset!

If that's the case, then you'd need to use public transport, buy a bicycle (second hand of course!) or walk ... without someone buying new at some time you wouldn't have a car at all!

As others have mentioned, there are EVs available in various price segments. Would you buy a new ICE Bentley or even a pre-owned one? - probably not as it looks like they likely don't fit your personal needs or ideology, whereas a smaller ICE family hatchback, whether new or pre-owned, may be more appropriate.

Effectively, I can't see the logic in comparing a highly depreciated ICE vehicle of unknown/unstated specification with a brand new medium to high spec EV vehicle on a basis where the power source is totally irrelevant ..... All that needs to be recognised is that new is new, pre-owned is pre-owned, depreciation is depreciation & running costs are running costs.

HTH
Z

Electric cars

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