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  • FIRST POST
    • skivy71
    • By skivy71 23rd May 19, 6:17 PM
    • 6Posts
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    skivy71
    Outgoings query
    • #1
    • 23rd May 19, 6:17 PM
    Outgoings query 23rd May 19 at 6:17 PM
    Hi,

    I owe around £43 in debt (breakdown below), but from my initial investigations (assuming BR being the best option), I have a query regarding how my figures will look, for the application.

    My outgoings are...

    Rent £90 weekly
    Mobile £4 monthly
    Child £200 monthly
    Old council tax £150 monthly
    Food etc. £50 weekly

    total £914 month

    So, I'm looking at approximately £1000 a month to live, but I'm unsure how the OR will interpret the child maintenance I pay (by amicable arrangement) and the old council tax bill.

    Do they allow for me to pay toward the looking after of my child (i sure hope so)?

    The council tax debt is in joint names (with my ex) and I don't want transfer this liability to herself.

    We (jointly) owe Anglian Water around £600, so I'm curious how joint debt's are handled? Again, I do not want this to be transferred to my ex, she has enough outgoings already.

    Kind regards,

    N.
Page 1
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 23rd May 19, 7:45 PM
    • 2,812 Posts
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    TheGardener
    • #2
    • 23rd May 19, 7:45 PM
    • #2
    • 23rd May 19, 7:45 PM
    I take it you mean £45,000?

    If the child maintenance is not on a court order you may have problems - might be worth you ex looking at doing that. DO the children spend time with you in the week - you are quite rightly able to include food, clothing etc if the children spend time with you.

    Council Tax - jointly and severally liable, the council will expect the whole CT debt will be paid by your ex I'm afraid. Unfortunately this will also apply to the Water bill.


    We would be able to offer more assistance if you did a full SoA - there is a good one here http://www.stoozing.com/calculator/soa.php that you can format to post on this board.You can certainly increase your food budget.
    • skivy71
    • By skivy71 23rd May 19, 11:01 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    skivy71
    • #3
    • 23rd May 19, 11:01 PM
    • #3
    • 23rd May 19, 11:01 PM
    well its closer to 43k, but I realised that my ex will become liable for the outstanding council tax and water, so I'm trying to get funds together, as to clear both of those prior to going pop.

    I do not wish to spend money formalising an amicable child payment arrangement. Are the OR not human being enough to realise that as a parent, I have an 'obligation' to help financially, regardless of an expensive court order?
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 24th May 19, 7:12 AM
    • 2,812 Posts
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    TheGardener
    • #4
    • 24th May 19, 7:12 AM
    • #4
    • 24th May 19, 7:12 AM
    To be honest, your understanding of the BR process seems a little sketchy and in BR no account of what you 'wish to do' is involved - I would advise you to speak to one of the free debt advice organisations: StepChange, CAB or Debtline. They will be able to advise you.

    If you treat some creditors 'preferentially' by paying them before you go BR - then the OR can simply ask those creditors to give them the money back to be distributed equally to other creditors.

    It is highly likely that the OR will refuse the request to pay towards the children if there is no court order however as I said in my previous post - if you can do an SoA and post it on here we may be able to help. Some child expenses can be included in your budget.

    Of course OR's are human - but they have a job to do and they have to follow the rules and comply with the law.
    Last edited by TheGardener; 24-05-2019 at 7:18 AM.
    • luvchocolate
    • By luvchocolate 24th May 19, 8:42 AM
    • 1,808 Posts
    • 1,658 Thanks
    luvchocolate
    • #5
    • 24th May 19, 8:42 AM
    • #5
    • 24th May 19, 8:42 AM
    I find the best planned B.Rs are the easiest to deal with, please read everything you can all the stickies on here also the I.S website , speak to one of the debt free charities.
    Research and read everything you can to give you a better understanding of the procedure.
    • skivy71
    • By skivy71 24th May 19, 11:27 AM
    • 6 Posts
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    skivy71
    • #6
    • 24th May 19, 11:27 AM
    • #6
    • 24th May 19, 11:27 AM
    Well, if ignore those joint liabilities and pass over both debts to my ex, she'll not be able to pay them, will freak out and likely stop me seeing my daughter... so i'm trying to do the right thing here
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 24th May 19, 12:14 PM
    • 2,457 Posts
    • 2,106 Thanks
    MEM62
    • #7
    • 24th May 19, 12:14 PM
    • #7
    • 24th May 19, 12:14 PM
    Well, if ignore those joint liabilities and pass over both debts to my ex, she'll not be able to pay them, will freak out and likely stop me seeing my daughter... so i'm trying to do the right thing here
    Originally posted by skivy71
    Trying to do the right this is commendable. However, when insolvent, you are lot allowed to favour one creditor over another so clearing joint debts immediately prior to your BR and leaving just the debt solely in your name unpaid is likely to give you problems with the OR as it is unfair to your creditors.

    When you have financial connections or associations such as you have with your ex, it is almost impossible to protect them from some fallout resulting from your bankruptcy.
    Last edited by MEM62; 24-05-2019 at 12:17 PM.
    • luvchocolate
    • By luvchocolate 24th May 19, 3:05 PM
    • 1,808 Posts
    • 1,658 Thanks
    luvchocolate
    • #8
    • 24th May 19, 3:05 PM
    • #8
    • 24th May 19, 3:05 PM
    There are strict rules to follow, which is why I suggested you read up on B.R
    • Minkym00
    • By Minkym00 24th May 19, 6:18 PM
    • 115 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Minkym00
    • #9
    • 24th May 19, 6:18 PM
    • #9
    • 24th May 19, 6:18 PM
    Most people have informal child maintenance payment arrangements. It doesn’t have to be court ordered to be an allowable expense.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 24th May 19, 6:30 PM
    • 13,848 Posts
    • 10,888 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Your ex has debts that she cannot pay too - so could she be eligible for a DRO?
    • skivy71
    • By skivy71 24th May 19, 7:13 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    skivy71
    @Minkym00 - that's good news, I did seem a bit poor that I should not be allowed to include amicably arranged child support based payments.

    @fatbelly, yes if I do not clear the council tax and water (which were both joint), as the remaining party in this debt, she'll be liable for around £2200 of debt.
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 24th May 19, 8:58 PM
    • 2,812 Posts
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    TheGardener
    Most people have informal child maintenance payment arrangements. It doesn’t have to be court ordered to be an allowable expense.
    Originally posted by Minkym00
    As I pointed out in my earlier post - there are some child expenses that are acceptable. However, straight 'maintenance' without a court order is not. I know that from personal painful experience.

    If the OP was to post an SoA we would of course be able to make suggestions.
    • skivy71
    • By skivy71 24th May 19, 10:22 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    skivy71
    Hi @TheGardener,

    I don't doubt for a minute that the OR could reject my wishes to pay £200 a month to my ex, so whatever I need to do regarding that, I will.

    Regarding the SoA, is it usual to post all that data in a public forum?

    Kind regards,

    N
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 25th May 19, 5:59 AM
    • 13,848 Posts
    • 10,888 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Well, we can't identify you unless your name is Mr Skivy, Yes, lots of posters do it so we can advise better. The calculator is here, and please format for MSE.

    Re previous comment, that's not a lot of debt for your ex - she will need a payment plan with the council and wait to see what happens with the water.
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 25th May 19, 6:39 AM
    • 2,812 Posts
    • 2,827 Thanks
    TheGardener
    ...Regarding the SoA, is it usual to post all that data in a public forum?...
    N
    Originally posted by skivy71
    Yes - it's what we do here when people ask for advice. As we have said before - I think you need to read a lot more about BR or seek the advice of the free debt charities. We have no way of knowing who you are or who your creditors are - we just look at your income and outgoings and suggest changes to your SoA that work.
    Last edited by TheGardener; 25-05-2019 at 7:10 AM.
    • Minkym00
    • By Minkym00 25th May 19, 4:14 PM
    • 115 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Minkym00
    The Gardener, I also know from experience that informal child support arrangements are allowed. I have seen several, and recently.
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 25th May 19, 8:47 PM
    • 2,812 Posts
    • 2,827 Thanks
    TheGardener
    The Gardener, I also know from experience that informal child support arrangements are allowed. I have seen several, and recently.
    Originally posted by Minkym00
    Well we obviously have different personal experience then don't we
    Last edited by TheGardener; 25-05-2019 at 9:04 PM.
    • skivy71
    • By skivy71 25th May 19, 9:07 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    skivy71
    Assuming thing's like amicable child maintenance become an issue with the OR, does this then mean a new application? I mean, worst case new fee's?
    • elljay
    • By elljay 26th May 19, 2:27 PM
    • 825 Posts
    • 688 Thanks
    elljay
    No, it doesn't work like that. Any IPA that is put in place is an agreement, you can negotiate with the OR. If in the end anything is not allowable you can always cut down elsewhere to make up the difference. For example, I was allowed £50 a week for food etc but actually spend around £25. So I was £25 up each week which I was able to use for something else.

    As has already been suggested, please contact Stepchange and talk it over with them as there are lots of things you don't seem to understand. I found them tremendously helpful. Also put a SOA up here - we've all done it, you're totally unidentifiable - and the very experienced advisers and others who have been there will go through it.

    EJ
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