Drain blocked and to be covered?
Carrot007
Posts: 4,534 Forumite
Hi, hoping someone knowledgeable can help here!
I am getting decking replaced (bodge job by previous owners).
I have just removed it round the conservatory.
Under it is a drain.
Just from the gutetring. I assume it is a real drain as it is a 50s house. (I belive modern houses are not allowed to connect guttering into a drain).
I think it must connect with the kitchen/bathroom waste just around the corner and go to a manhole in the front.
On removing the old decking it seems a mess and blocked.
It is just a open end pipe into an old pot drain with one of those round metal covers.
As such under the decking it got messed up.
I cleaned to top out and removed the metal cover.
Still looked messy.
With a trowel I dug out what was in there. Looked like nice but very wet compost. (I guess a drain is probably much like a compost bin and it was not such origionally?).
After I got as much as I could out I used the hose (decent pressure) to fill it. it drained very slowly.
My questions are.
1. Cleanup... Presumably I need to get it free running. I might be able to get a pressure washed and I used to have to drain rods. Will this be enough?
2. Fix it... Since this is to be recovered what should I do with it. Should the decking have an easy inspection hatch or will some fixed cover be enough, and can I get something capable from screwfix/b&q (is urgent!).
Cheers for any advice! I am fairly ok with such things as I replaced a collapsed drain at my old property so don't mind a mess! (Yes I had to use a wet vac thing to remove "waste").
I am getting decking replaced (bodge job by previous owners).
I have just removed it round the conservatory.
Under it is a drain.
Just from the gutetring. I assume it is a real drain as it is a 50s house. (I belive modern houses are not allowed to connect guttering into a drain).
I think it must connect with the kitchen/bathroom waste just around the corner and go to a manhole in the front.
On removing the old decking it seems a mess and blocked.
It is just a open end pipe into an old pot drain with one of those round metal covers.
As such under the decking it got messed up.
I cleaned to top out and removed the metal cover.
Still looked messy.
With a trowel I dug out what was in there. Looked like nice but very wet compost. (I guess a drain is probably much like a compost bin and it was not such origionally?).
After I got as much as I could out I used the hose (decent pressure) to fill it. it drained very slowly.
My questions are.
1. Cleanup... Presumably I need to get it free running. I might be able to get a pressure washed and I used to have to drain rods. Will this be enough?
2. Fix it... Since this is to be recovered what should I do with it. Should the decking have an easy inspection hatch or will some fixed cover be enough, and can I get something capable from screwfix/b&q (is urgent!).
Cheers for any advice! I am fairly ok with such things as I replaced a collapsed drain at my old property so don't mind a mess! (Yes I had to use a wet vac thing to remove "waste").
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Comments
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1. Cleanup... Presumably I need to get it free running. I might be able to get a pressure washed and I used to have to drain rods. Will this be enough?
2. Fix it... Since this is to be recovered what should I do with it. Should the decking have an easy inspection hatch or will some fixed cover be enough, and can I get something capable from screwfix/b&q (is urgent!).
For me (I used to work as a drainage engineer) the end game would be having a cleared drain and a manhole cover which is accessible.
Getting there is a bit more complicated as it is possible the drain is a public sewer (if it is shared and meets the criteria for it to have been transferred to the water company's ownership).
If it is a public sewer then the good news is the water company pays for it to be cleared
The bad news is they will be very unhappy if you want to cover the manhole with decking in such a way that it is difficult to see and access in the event of an emergency. 
One approach might be to assume it is private, clean it out yourself the best you can, and then construct a section of your decking above the manhole which can simply be lifted out.
Don't screw it down as inevitably when you need to access the manhole you'll find the screwheads have rusted and are impossible to undo. One of my more memorable site visits involved some decking which had been fitted using Robertson (square slot) type screws.... nobody carries Robertson screwdrivers around with them so my site visit was to authorise someone's lovely decking being removed by (six foot) crowbar. This is the technique that will be used on your decking if it is screwed down over the manhole.
Having stood in many back gardens with a jetting crew trying to figure out where a manhole has been hidden as sewage bubbles out of a hole elsewhere I can say hand on heart that as the homeowner it is very much in your interests to make sure that manhole can be accessed in an emergency You might even find yourself having difficulty claiming on house insurance in a 'flood' situation if something covering a manhole has delayed removing a blockage. "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
To me, it doesn't sound like the OP was intending to cover the "manhole," just the drain gully.
If it were me, I'd want to know where the rainwater in the gully goes, so I'd take up the manhole cover and check when sending water into the gully to see if it emerges there.
Not all gullies are roddable. Sometimes, one has to lie down and scoop stuff out using hands, rather than a trowel, especially at the trap bend. Guiding a hose down there might also help to free any blockage.
If the drain connects with the inspection chamber ('manhole') then it might be roddable from that end.
However, even on an older house it's possible this gully has its own soakaway, and if that which is silted-up, it's bad news, as it will need replacing.
Either way, if you are capable of laying decking, you're able to figure out a way of covering the gully, yet have it accessible for periodic maintenance. I think I used brass screws when I did something similar, but there's other choices, including hex headed outdoor coach screws.0 -
This sounds as though it's a rainwater pipe possibly connected to a soakaway rather than a foul water sewer (the 'compost' being moss etc washed off the roof).Make £2024 in 2024
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To me, it doesn't sound like the OP was intending to cover the "manhole," just the drain gully.
If it were me, I'd want to know where the rainwater in the gully goes, so I'd take up the manhole cover and check when sending water into the gully to see if it emerges there.
Not all gullies are roddable. Sometimes, one has to lie down and scoop stuff out using hands, rather than a trowel, especially at the trap bend. Guiding a hose down there might also help to free any blockage.
If the drain connects with the inspection chamber ('manhole') then it might be roddable from that end.
However, even on an older house it's possible this gully has its own soakaway, and if that which is silted-up, it's bad news, as it will need replacing.
Either way, if you are capable of laying decking, you're able to figure out a way of covering the gully, yet have it accessible for periodic maintenance. I think I used brass screws when I did something similar, but there's other choices, including hex headed outdoor coach screws.
Yes I am on about the drain! I have now rodded just the top. And that did get it free flowing (as in it took from the hose as much as I gave it and did not fill up). I also got my pond gloves on and removed as muc has I could grab too!
I does not appear to go to the manhole, despite the exit from the drain going in that general direction! I watched it for a while while the OH pointed the hose down it. A toilet flush from the bathroom just round the corner came into it as expected. Although it took 30 seconds for this, as it is a way away.
At last looking down the 4-5 foot manhole it was empty. Last I looked it was filling to the brim and the water company came out and jetted the wrong way, shoving everything up my downstairs toilet! Still they paid for the needed to be replaced!
The other gutters go into a concreted off hole (there are 2 more). So I don't really understand why this one is not like that, esepecially as it was the hidden one! Still I know the previous owners were bodgers (have had to replace bathroom and kitchen since i got here, I was always going to but did it ealier due to the old one's having issues!). I guess doing the same to this one may be better than an access cover now it is flowing well. It is is a bad place just outside a door!
There is another such one (concreted in as I say). at the other side of the back, so maybe this one does go that way despite initially going the other way!
Or as you say maybe it is a soakaway, but I thought i was unliekly on a house build in t he very early 50's. (Guy over the road remembers being here when they were only foundations so build date is well known!).0 -
This sounds as though it's a rainwater pipe possibly connected to a soakaway rather than a foul water sewer (the 'compost' being moss etc washed off the roof).
There was a lot of moss up on the roof and in the gutter, so maybe.
But the only reason I doubted a soakaway was it is an early 50's build.
But maybe, see previous post of mine!0 -
OK, apologies for any confusion caused by my misunderstanding. To help you deal with any contractors or the water company in future, bear in mind that the word 'drain' is used for the pipe under the ground, and the square or round thing with a metal grate that the gutter downpipe empties into is called a 'gully' or 'gulley'.Yes I am on about the drain! I have now rodded just the top. And that did get it free flowing (as in it took from the hose as much as I gave it and did not fill up). I also got my pond gloves on and removed as muc has I could grab too!
Surface water drains often have fewer (or no) manholes because they are less likely to get blocked. This makes it difficult to work out where they go, as there might be an entirely separate drainage system, or a soakaway, or a combined sewer where the rainwater ends up in the same pipe as the foul sewage.I does not appear to go to the manhole, despite the exit from the drain going in that general direction!
Soakaways have been used all the time since the earliest drainage systems (Roman at least). The decision whether or not to use one normally depends on whether or not the land is suitable (free draining) and where the nearest sewer connection is. Sometimes houses will have the front gutters connected to a surface water sewer, the back ones to a soakaway. There are no hard and fast rules.Or as you say maybe it is a soakaway, but I thought i was unliekly on a house build in t he very early 50's. (Guy over the road remembers being here when they were only foundations so build date is well known!).
The main thing, as I was saying in my previous post, is to make sure there is good access - my comments about accessing manholes apply equally to gullies, especially as gullies ideally need cleaning out regularly (say once a year) to avoid the drain they are connected to getting blocked. The purpose of the 'sump' part of a gully is to trap grit and solid matter, rather than letting it build up in the drain."In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
OK, apologies for any confusion caused by my misunderstanding. To help you deal with any contractors or the water company in future, bear in mind that the word 'drain' is used for the pipe under the ground, and the square or round thing with a metal grate that the gutter downpipe empties into is called a 'gully' or 'gulley'.
Cheers for the info.
Though It's just as bad in my industry and I would not expect non members to get things righ,t though I guess it's sometimes hard when someone uses one term for something that is used for something else! It's easy to be caught out, happens to us all!Surface water drains often have fewer (or no) manholes because they are less likely to get blocked. This makes it difficult to work out where they go, as there might be an entirely separate drainage system, or a soakaway, or a combined sewer where the rainwater ends up in the same pipe as the foul sewage.
Soakaways have been used all the time since the earliest drainage systems (Roman at least). The decision whether or not to use one normally depends on whether or not the land is suitable (free draining) and where the nearest sewer connection is. Sometimes houses will have the front gutters connected to a surface water sewer, the back ones to a soakaway. There are no hard and fast rules.
The main thing, as I was saying in my previous post, is to make sure there is good access - my comments about accessing manholes apply equally to gullies, especially as gullies ideally need cleaning out regularly (say once a year) to avoid the drain they are connected to getting blocked. The purpose of the 'sump' part of a gully is to trap grit and solid matter, rather than letting it build up in the drain.
Sounds like I may have got it clean then. Lucky I had pong gloves handy!
So would it be wrong to change the gulley to just be a pipe concreated into the ground? As That is what has been done with the other 2 around the house! (Even though the one under the decking would have been the sane one to do this to, but like I said previous owners were bodgers).
Thinking about it there is a "drainage ditch" beyond the back fence so maybe they go that way. Even though the outlet down the hole does go towards somewhere that would meet the bathroom/kitchen waster pipe and go to the manhole.0 -
So would it be wrong to change the gulley to just be a pipe concreated into the ground? As That is what has been done with the other 2 around the house! (Even though the one under the decking would have been the sane one to do this to, but like I said previous owners were bodgers).
Everyone has their own opinion on this kind of thing. Personally I'd only put a gutter downpipe straight into an underground pipe if there were some kind of access (manholes) to clear the drains if they get blocked. Otherwise a gully gives you some protection against blocked drains, and at least a warning that something is wrong before it becomes a disaster. An overflowing gully is usually the first sign a drain is blocking up."In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
Everyone has their own opinion on this kind of thing. Personally I'd only put a gutter downpipe straight into an underground pipe if there were some kind of access (manholes) to clear the drains if they get blocked. Otherwise a gully gives you some protection against blocked drains, and at least a warning that something is wrong before it becomes a disaster. An overflowing gully is usually the first sign a drain is blocking up.
OK, sounds like one of those plastic wrap around things over the metal plate for less stuff sgetting though, and screw the decking down there for easy access is the way to go then.
Well since I have no idea where it goes!0
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