Electric cars

AdrianC wrote: »

I don't even want to think about the infrastructural costs of installing this everywhere, let alone how this could possibly ever be monetised.

You could just read the article?

At a cost of €1m per kilometre, the cost of electrification is said to be 50 times lower than that required to construct an urban tram line.

Does Volvo count...?

Ah yes. It does. Point being, if you look beyond the badge and under the metal, theres loads of 'Chinese' in our cars, even our Peugeots, already. I think we would agree that Peugeot are a bit late complaining about a 'Chinese invasion'.

It was a joke, because Adrian calls us fanbois if we say anything nice about Tesla.

I know, I know, but you just need to be careful not to wash over Tesla's failings. They ARE behind on Model 3 production. They HAVE had issues. They ARE improving on it. You'll sound like a fanboi if you only ever say positives and ignore the negatives.

by developing them, rather than re-badging some Mitsu's, then they might not be in that position. They dragged their heels, as have many (most?) of the old school.

And again, my point is even just that simple rebadging job, plus the electric van (what's Peugeot's Berlingo) plus the list AdrianC gave you, shows that, in my opinion, they're actually ahead of a lot of the old school. Behind Renault? Sure. Behind BYD? Sure. But amongst the mainstream car manufacturers, they haven't been too bad in terms of electrification. I think you're very much downplaying them having an electric car on the road in 2010. Very few manufacturers can say that, by whatever means.

Edit - Just a thought, but if you are right, and I'm wrong about PSA and their EV support, then that means PSA are wrong too, since they claim they need protection from the EV boys.

Those 2 statements aren't mutually exclusive. This is why you argue so much! I argued with 'not big supporters', your statement, not the contents of an article. Peugeot would argue that Europe led them down the diesel path with taxation and regulations, and I can see that argument.

Wow, so much faux outrage from the PSA fanbois. Still flogging away at a dead horse!

Evidence being provided is met with this? Not good.

that's what happens when someone posts made up nonsense and negativity all the time without bothering to even read up on the subject they are trashing first.

Adrian has just been posting loads of positivity about EVs over the last couple of days. Just they've been about PSA EVs, so it doesn't suit your argument.

almillar wrote: »

Ah yes. It does. Point being, if you look beyond the badge and under the metal, theres loads of 'Chinese' in our cars, even our Peugeots, already. I think we would agree that Peugeot are a bit late complaining about a 'Chinese invasion'.


I know, I know, but you just need to be careful not to wash over Tesla's failings. They ARE behind on Model 3 production. They HAVE had issues. They ARE improving on it. You'll sound like a fanboi if you only ever say positives and ignore the negatives.



And again, my point is even just that simple rebadging job, plus the electric van (what's Peugeot's Berlingo) plus the list AdrianC gave you, shows that, in my opinion, they're actually ahead of a lot of the old school. Behind Renault? Sure. Behind BYD? Sure. But amongst the mainstream car manufacturers, they haven't been too bad in terms of electrification. I think you're very much downplaying them having an electric car on the road in 2010. Very few manufacturers can say that, by whatever means.



Those 2 statements aren't mutually exclusive. This is why you argue so much! I argued with 'not big supporters', your statement, not the contents of an article. Peugeot would argue that Europe led them down the diesel path with taxation and regulations, and I can see that argument.



Evidence being provided is met with this? Not good.



Adrian has just been posting loads of positivity about EVs over the last couple of days. Just they've been about PSA EVs, so it doesn't suit your argument.

Still flogging this dead horse, god you love arguing don't you.

My comment matched the article and the host of additional articles I provided you with.

Your counter was to mention the same Mitsu three times!

If you are right that PSA are massive supporters of EV's, then they have nothing to worry about do they?

But if it's OK with you, I'll continue to agree that they have not supported EV's enough (like most of the old school), and now are complaining, when it's their own fault.

I'll note here that these plans are nothing new, and that auto manufacturers have had a long time now to make changes so as to remain in compliance. They haven't done so for two main reasons: moving towards plug-in electric vehicles would lower their profit margins significantly; and the assumption of many was that fraudulent diesel car emission figures would partially help in meeting the goals.

If the article is wrong, then tell em. Adrian has already claimed that the journo's are wrong. But you won't change my opinion on this matter, I agree with the article.


Edit - Even better idea - join disqus and tell all of the commentators that they are all wrong too (most of them are big supporters of RE and EV's). Here are some good comments:

So let me get this straight: in the former decade, no action on GHG emissions could be implemented because China was doing too little; now no action on GHG emissions can be implemented because China is doing too much.

Our Chinese brethren did not have exclusive god given rights to develop EVs. Mr Tavares and company in the European car industry choose to exclude themselves from this endeavour, now they are going to have to pay for such arrogance.
Life is a !!!!! and then you die!

The carmakers that don't offer enough EVs will be brought to their knees by the buying public, when they stop buying their ICE vehicles.

That threat is far larger than the small fines the EU will leverage against them.

The national champion carmaker in France isn't PSA but Renault, which is leading the EV charge. PSA are feeling a cold draft and beginning to panic.

How many times have we heard BS such as those from auto execs? I've already lost my counting.

"Tavares went on to state that a major Europe-based auto manufacturer could be brought "to its knees" by such an approach, and as such it was dangerous." "

Indeed, being late to the EV party will prove existentially dangerous to many existing ICE manufacturers.

But that is no excuse. Tavares can stick his fear-mongering where the sun don't shine.

All the best.

Some excellent EV news for our European siblings in this weeks Carbon Commentary newsletter:

Very, and I mean very, cheap charging potential for Spanish EV owners:-

1, Spain vehicle charging. Utility Iberderola said it would install 25,000 chargers, mostly in homes, by 2021. Customers can buy electricity from them at 3 € cents per kilowatt hour for 01.00-7.00 am charging, about one fifth of the average European domestic power price. The company says that this implies a cost of €0.50 for 100 km driving, about one tenth of the price of petrol for a similar distance. Iberderola also announced a partnership with a large petrol retailer to put rapid (50 kW) chargers on its forecourts. 50 kW provides enough electricity in just over 20 minutes to drive 100 km.

and an interestingly well coordinated approach to EV's, RE and grid storage from Renault (who are supporters of EV's):-

7, Vehicle to grid. Renault said it was launching a trial of ‘vehicle to grid’ electricity on the Portuguese island of Porto Santo, close to Madeira, later this year. Porto Santo is small, with a population of only 5,000 spread over 40 square kilometers, but this experiment is intended to show the viability of building 100% renewable islands, using vehicle batteries as the main storage medium. 1,000 cars would provide about 10 hours of typical Porto Santo electricity consumption if used continuously. ‘Second life’ batteries from local cars will also be deployed at the island’s wind and solar farms.

It's great to see that the potential of EV's as a form of balancing and storage for variable RE generation is being taken seriously already.