Live in carer arrangements.
Spirit_2
Posts: 5,546 Forumite
Background
An elderly neighbour has no close family relies on other kind neighbours who have been her friends for 40 years to provide a considerable amount of care every day. This friendly arrangement is now unsustainable as one of the kind neighbours has been diagnosed with a serious condition.
Elderly neighbour, has had a short period in a nursing home and has returned home, expecting her friends to continue to care for her, has declined help from social services and has this week agreed with the lady who comes in weekly to clean for her to move in and provide care. The lady moving in is trustworthy and has been coming for several years; When she moves in, her dog and boyfriend will also move in.
They have agreed this is a paid role, and the couple will move in this weekend.
The kind neighbours have a POA for financial matters on behalf of their friend but are currently providing care and dealing with daily hospital treatment.
I am looking at what administrative matters need to be dealt with to regularise this new arrangement e. g employment responsibilities for the elderly neighbour, NI, Tax etc, terms & conditions, insurance, a role description.
Who is accountable/ liable for these matters? Elderly neighbours or those with financial POA.
There will be other matters I am sure and all advice on admin matters and resources will be welcome.
An elderly neighbour has no close family relies on other kind neighbours who have been her friends for 40 years to provide a considerable amount of care every day. This friendly arrangement is now unsustainable as one of the kind neighbours has been diagnosed with a serious condition.
Elderly neighbour, has had a short period in a nursing home and has returned home, expecting her friends to continue to care for her, has declined help from social services and has this week agreed with the lady who comes in weekly to clean for her to move in and provide care. The lady moving in is trustworthy and has been coming for several years; When she moves in, her dog and boyfriend will also move in.
They have agreed this is a paid role, and the couple will move in this weekend.
The kind neighbours have a POA for financial matters on behalf of their friend but are currently providing care and dealing with daily hospital treatment.
I am looking at what administrative matters need to be dealt with to regularise this new arrangement e. g employment responsibilities for the elderly neighbour, NI, Tax etc, terms & conditions, insurance, a role description.
Who is accountable/ liable for these matters? Elderly neighbours or those with financial POA.
There will be other matters I am sure and all advice on admin matters and resources will be welcome.
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Comments
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Power of Attorney only comes into play when person has lost capacity to make decisions.
See also this site for other questions
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/employing-a-professional-carer-or-personal-assistant0 -
Rosieandjim wrote: »Power of Attorney only comes into play when person has lost capacity to make decisions.
See also this site for other questions
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/employing-a-professional-carer-or-personal-assistant
Not necessarily true for financial poa with regard to physically being able to do things (e.g. set up the payments etc).
Need to ensure that working time directives are followed, e.g. there are different rules for live in and live out carers, but all employees require specific breaks and time off etc. A second carer will likely be needed (for the time off, illness, holidays etc). There also needs to be clear boundaries regarding the living arrangements, e.g. the accommodation ceases if the job ends, and a time frame for moving out. The carer and her partner will be lodgers and therefore have limited rights, but they do have some rights.
Tax, NI etc will need to be paid, and the carer will be an employee, they are very unlikely to meet the criteria for self employed. They must be paid minimum wage (again rules vary for live in vs liveout carers).0 -
Rosieandjim wrote: »Power of Attorney only comes into play when person has lost capacity to make decisions.
See also this site for other questions
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/employing-a-professional-carer-or-personal-assistant
That is for Northern Ireland where rules are often different to the rest of the UK
more suitable links will be found0 -
Does the neighbour still have capacity? The arrangement you describe likely means they'll have to register with hmrc as an employer. Theres also pension enrolment to consider.
Has she looked at home care agencies? Like every industry, it has its bad eggs that give the rest a tarnished image. It also has the benefit that she'd pay them a flat fee and all the rest (pensions, tax, ni, annual leave, holiday/sickness/maternity cover etc) is up to the care provider.
It may be worth going over both options with her and weighing up the pros and cons of each.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0 -
The problem with 24 hour care is it is really really expensive (you’ll be lucky to get change out of £1500 a week at least as it’s around £15 an hour ish for 15 hours then sleep on top generally).
The other problem is is that it’s one thing caring for someone when popping in, but something else when living with them. If they give their place up to move in then it doesn’t work out it won’t give them options like it does if there just popping in.:T:T :beer: :beer::beer::beer: to the lil one
:beer::beer::beer:0 -
Not necessarily true for financial poa with regard to physically being able to do things (e.g. set up the payments etc).
Need to ensure that working time directives are followed, e.g. there are different rules for live in and live out carers, but all employees require specific breaks and time off etc. A second carer will likely be needed (for the time off, illness, holidays etc). There also needs to be clear boundaries regarding the living arrangements, e.g. the accommodation ceases if the job ends, and a time frame for moving out. The carer and her partner will be lodgers and therefore have limited rights, but they do have some rights.
Tax, NI etc will need to be paid, and the carer will be an employee, they are very unlikely to meet the criteria for self employed. They must be paid minimum wage (again rules vary for live in vs liveout carers).
The POA came into effect due to her no longer being able to physically undertake transacting. Otherwise she is capable of making decisions concerning day to day financial matters.0 -
unholyangel wrote: »Does the neighbour still have capacity? The arrangement you describe likely means they'll have to register with hmrc as an employer. Theres also pension enrolment to consider.
Has she looked at home care agencies? Like every industry, it has its bad eggs that give the rest a tarnished image. It also has the benefit that she'd pay them a flat fee and all the rest (pensions, tax, ni, annual leave, holiday/sickness/maternity cover etc) is up to the care provider.
It may be worth going over both options with her and weighing up the pros and cons of each.
If she were my relative I would wish she had considered a variety of routes including a more a professional arrangement, but that is not my business and I am confident she would not want me to question her decision nor involve myself in discussing the merits of options available with her.
The area of concern is the administration and liabilities concerning the decision she has already taken. In making her aware of her responsibilities, helping her to set up due process for compliance; My interest is her wellbeing and limiting any effort or liability that would fall to our kind neighbours whilst they are unable to take care of this themselves.0 -
Have to say this sounds like a nightmare in the making.0
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I agree, this sounds like the kind of situation that could very easily go wrong.
At the very least, the person with POA should consult a solicitor to make sure that everything is done properly. One red flag might be ownership of the property and whether there will be problems if the elderly person dies/needs to move to a care home and the new residents refuse to move out - or if the elderly person just doesn't like them any more and wants them to go.0
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