Small claims court.

Zadzad · 8 January 2018 at 9:27PM

I have commenced small claims action against VGL Services who despite their attempts to bluff are part of viagogo.

I served papers to the vgl offices through the court and they had until the 8/1 to respond. The claim was for £350 and on the basis of breach of their own terms selling items that did not exist and under the consumer rights act.

Saturday I received a special delivery letter from a major law firm suggesting that the two companies are not linked and therefore the paperwork was served wrong and advising that I should drop my action.

There is proof from a number of sources that the companies are linked namely several media articles, a visit by MPs and etc.

There was also a post under tickets to say someone a month ago had tried the same route - company - address and acts and the case was not defended.
All of a sudden that person has not posted here or on FB.

I think the letter is to bully me to drop case.

If I proceed I know there will be a court fee to pay all refundable if I win.

My question is IF I was to lose at this stage would I be liable for any defence costs.

It’s a minefield trying to find the answer.
I have also tried to find out if there is a central register of small claims judgements to see if the post about a success is true.

Many thanks for any advice.

Lomast · 8 January 2018 at 9:50PM

Just because they are linked does not make them the same company if it's a ltd company then it is a legal entity in its own right.
As far as I know there is no central register as unlike higher courts, county court judgements do not set a precident

dj1471 · 8 January 2018 at 9:56PM

Why are you knowingly claiming against the wrong company?

You need to claim from the company you contracted with (viagogo AG, in Switzerland). You agreed to the Swiss courts having exclusive jurisdiction as part of the contract. Being "linked" makes no difference at all.

Yes, the judge could order you to pay costs if they believe you have behaved unreasonably.

steampowered · 8 January 2018 at 11:50PM

Companies have different legal personality. You are NOT permitted to claim against other companies simply because they are in the same group of companies or the same owner.

If your contract is with Viagogo AG, that is who you must sue. Not VGL Services.

If you have sued the wrong company, you need to withdraw your claim and start again.

steampowered · 8 January 2018 at 11:52PM

dj1471 wrote: »

You need to claim from the company you contracted with (viagogo AG, in Switzerland). You agreed to the Swiss courts having exclusive jurisdiction as part of the contract.

While that is what Viagogo AG's T&Cs state, it is unlikely to be legally enforceable.

See https://www.out-law.com/page-11564

Zadzad · 9 January 2018 at 12:07AM

Steampowered

Thank you for the link. I have spent hours researching my position before getting to small claims court. As I said there is evidence that VGL is a subsidiary of V and this was discussed in the media as I previously mentioned. Not just one report but a number. As a subsidiary they are bound by the terms of the country they trade.
There is action being taken in number of countries against their illegal practices and most they are trading under different company names.

In tickets there is a posting or similar action. If VGL are not connected surely a letter from their internal legal team
is sufficient not the bullying of a major law firm to defend £400.
The question remains as to if someone knows the extent of my liabilities if I was to lose.

steampowered · 9 January 2018 at 12:33AM

Zadzad wrote: »

Steampowered

Thank you for the link. I have spent hours researching my position before getting to small claims court. As I said there is evidence that VGL is a subsidiary of V and this was discussed in the media as I previously mentioned.

It doesn't matter.

A subsidiary and a parent company are independent companies with separate legal personality.

You cannot sue a subsidiary under a contract you entered into with its parent. You cannot sue a parent company under a contract you entered into with its subsidiary.

You need to establish which company your contract was with (this will be stated on your invoice / order confirmation), and sue that company.

dj1471 · 9 January 2018 at 9:19AM

steampowered wrote: »

While that is what Viagogo AG's T&Cs state, it is unlikely to be legally enforceable.

See https://www.out-law.com/page-11564

The ECJ don't have jurisdiction over Switzerland since they are not a member of the EU.

Supersonos · 9 January 2018 at 10:31AM

Zadzad wrote: »

My question is IF I was to lose at this stage would I be liable for any defence costs.

Zadzad wrote: »

The question remains as to if someone knows the extent of my liabilities if I was to lose.

Everyone on here is doing a great job of ignoring your question.

Claimable costs in the small claims track are very limited. Legal costs cannot be reclaimed, regardless of whether you win or lose.

MH1927 · 9 January 2018 at 10:45AM

Thats not strictly true, costs can be awarded against a claimant in SCC if the claim is considered vexatious or unreasonable.

No one knows how a judge will consider a claim.

I've heard of a FMOTL'er get hit with £3.5K in costs after suing a council because a traffic warden put a ticket on his car ignoring his "schedule of costs" that was displayed on his car.

Whilst an extreme example is it reasonable for the company to stand its own costs in this instance?

Supersonos · 9 January 2018 at 10:49AM

Then I stand corrected. Everything I've ever read about the small claims track is that costs are very limited. Citizen's Advice say:

"You'll usually have to pay if you instruct a solicitor even if you win your case, so most people don't use solicitors."

"If you lose, you won't get the court fees back - but you won't usually have to pay any other costs."

I appreciate it says usually, though.

Small claims court.

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