Wi-fi extender or powerline?

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  • mamazaac
    mamazaac Posts: 659
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    Can you give a little more details about your requirements ? eg what kit does your son upstairs use (desktop pc / laptop / tablet /...). Downstairs, is it just the pc, or also phone / tablet (or do they get sufficient signal from the main router) ? Do you need to stream video, or is it just for surfing the web and a few emails ?

    Does poor wifi signal mean dropouts, or just low speed ?

    My son uses a laptop upstairs. My other son and husband may at any time also be using a tablet/laptop/mobile downstairs. Only streaming that takes place really is youtube now and again. Though will of course slow down even more if we're all on something, speed can be an issue even when only one device connected. Drop outs are very rare, but sometimes can be sitting here for up to a minute or so waiting for a page to load quite regularly.
    Is the downstairs pc always on (and so could take part in the solution) ?

    Is on most of the time, though have been trying to remember to turn it off overnight. What did you have in mind?

    Ideal setup might be three powerline adapters : simple wired ones downstairs plus a wifi-enabled one upstairs.

    So, does this mean that you think having the TL-WPA8630PKIT receiver in the pc room (so the pc would be plugged in via ethernet), thus creating a wi-fi hotspot directly under my son's room, would not be adequate?
    Not sure I'd believe the ,anufacturers hype about all that mimo channel stuff. If you're happy with the bandwith you get from wifi when it's working (and it's just dropouts that are the problem) then it doesn't seem necessary. If all devices are connecting to the internet, the broadband is likely to be the limiting factor, not the shared bandwidth within the house. If there's a lot of internal streaming (eg from a media server in one room to multiple devices around the house) then internal channel usage would become more important.

    Sorry, not sure I made myself clear. The PC Advisor article suggests that it is NOT always a good thing to have MU-MIMO as, when using older non MU-MIMO devices connected to the router, it can throttle the bandwidth. When looking up the specs yesterday, I see that the router I have been given with my broadband package DOES have MU-MIMO and most of our devices are old and unlikely to be compatible. I was therefore wondering whether this could be the problem and if it would be sorted if I got a router without MU-MIMO built in?
    I think I read that 5GHz wifi is great with strong signals, but the signals get attenuated more strongly by barriers. (So presumably you're not benefiting much from this ?) I wonder if it's worth trying an experiment of turning off the higher frequency channel, just in case things work better in a more stable simple configuration, rather than it repeatedly retrying to use the higher frequency ?

    You're presuming I can work out how to do that! As it happens, my pc is not compatible with the 5GHz, so when I first got the router I was connected to the lower frequency and was still slow. In the hope of speeding it up, I plugged a dual band dongle into the pc to make it compatible. When I first got it, it seemed to make it a lot faster for the first day or so, but then it went back to being sluggish again. When I click on the icon in the toolbar that shows what internet you are connected to, weirdly the pc is connected to both the low frequency and the 5GHz, BUT only two bars on the 5GHz compared to three on the other one so, yes, the walls are definitely having more of an adverse affect on the 5GHz.

    Hope the above helps you to help me. Your assistance is very much appreciated :)
  • psychic_teabag
    psychic_teabag Posts: 2,865
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    edited 17 March 2017 at 11:58AM
    mamazaac wrote: »
    My son uses a laptop upstairs. My other son and husband may at any time also be using a tablet/laptop/mobile downstairs.

    Would that be in the same room as the main router (and so using its wifi), or in the same room as the desktop pc ? You only described the relative placement of the router and the desktop, IIRC.
    Only streaming that takes place really is youtube now and again. Though will of course slow down even more if we're all on something, speed can be an issue even when only one device connected. Drop outs are very rare, but sometimes can be sitting here for up to a minute or so waiting for a page to load quite regularly.

    It's definitely the wifi rather than the broadband, say ? Does the laptop behave fine when downstairs and connected to the router with an ethernet cable ?


    (PC)
    Is on most of the time, though have been trying to remember to turn it off overnight. What did you have in mind?

    Well, the thing I had in mind was using a wired (via powerline adapters) connection from pc to router, and then the pc could itself act as a wifi hotspot, serving the upstairs and forwarding the traffic.
    So, does this mean that you think having the TL-WPA8630PKIT receiver in the pc room (so the pc would be plugged in via ethernet), thus creating a wi-fi hotspot directly under my son's room, would not be adequate?

    Not necessarily. Just seems that if upstairs is where it's needed, that would seem the obvious place to put it ?

    Sorry, not sure I made myself clear. The PC Advisor article suggests that it is NOT always a good thing to have MU-MIMO as, when using older non MU-MIMO devices connected to the router, it can throttle the bandwidth. When looking up the specs yesterday, I see that the router I have been given with my broadband package DOES have MU-MIMO and most of our devices are old and unlikely to be compatible. I was therefore wondering whether this could be the problem and if it would be sorted if I got a router without MU-MIMO built in?

    Sorry, cross-purposes... I was talking about the MIMO features on the powerline adapters you were looking at (AV2 - using all 3 wires for communication). This would be independent of anything the router is doing, since it would all be handled by the powerline adapters themselves. I'll admit I don't know a lot about the technology, though. But there doesn't seem to be much point massively overspec-ing the speed of one part of the link if there are slower paths (specificlally, your broadband speed). Of course, if you have a fibre connection, maybe it is your internal network.

    I'm afraid I don't have any experience with 5GHz wifi, so can't be of any help there.
  • S0litaire wrote: »
    Anyone use Powerline Adapters on short (1m) extension cord compared to a adapter with a 5m or 6m cat6 cable?

    A couple of my powerline adapters are plugged into 4-way extensions with about 0.5m cables, despite the manuals recommending against it. Not aware of any problems, and the LEDs indicate a full-speed connection.
    The last is on the other side of the room which would require at least 5m+ network cable to be routed around the room.

    I treat ethernet cable as pretty much lossless - it's spec-ed for tens of metres of cable run (and IIRC the limit of 100m is more to do with ensuring that collisions of the shortest packets can not go undetected, rather than because the signal would be attenuated).
  • psychic_teabag
    psychic_teabag Posts: 2,865
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    edited 17 March 2017 at 1:56PM
    So, does this mean that you think having the TL-WPA8630PKIT receiver in the pc room (so the pc would be plugged in via ethernet), thus creating a wi-fi hotspot directly under my son's room, would not be adequate?

    Note that I do tend to be a bit of a luddite. I think my thinking is that you might be better off buying three older-generation AV1 (or AV500) adapters, rather than two AV2 adapters. (Can possibly get them relatively cheap if they're being replaced by AV2 - this is a money-saving site, after all !)

    But I'm sure others will advocate always buying the best spec you can.

    (For reference, my pcs and laptops are all well over 5 years old too... I still use 100Mb ethernet, etc, etc.)
  • AndyPix
    AndyPix Posts: 4,847
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    I treat ethernet cable as pretty much lossless - it's spec-ed for tens of metres of cable run (and IIRC the limit of 100m .


    ^^ This .. Or most office buildings networks wouldnt work.
    The actual internal cable run should be limited to 90M if possible though as the 100M figure has to take into account the patch leads in the cabinet and from the socket to the desk.


    Im guessing the OP doesnt want a cable run round his front room though if possible :(


    Another option would be to run a fibre, which is MUCH thinner, and just use a small media converetor at each end
  • S0litaire
    S0litaire Posts: 3,535
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    AndyPix wrote: »
    Im guessing the OP doesnt want a cable run round his front room though if possible :(

    Yup. I can't drill holes to cable directly (I'm renting, the thick stone internal walls and the fact i don't own a drill at present! makes that a no-go.)

    But cable to the other side of the room is acceptable but annoying to route.
    AndyPix wrote: »
    Another option would be to run a fibre, which is MUCH thinner, and just use a small media converter at each end
    Was thinking of this but again it's the holes through walls issue. I might get away with routing it around the flat along the walls but I'm on a budget ;)

    So good quality powerline is looking the best bang for the buck ;)
    Laters

    Sol

    "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
  • DCFC79
    DCFC79 Posts: 40,598
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    Do you want pass through or not ?

    Pass through are similar to these

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-PA8010P-KIT-Powerline-Configuration-UK-x/dp/B00UTG32TQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1489759772&sr=8-3&keywords=pass+through+homeplugs

    Ones that aren't pass are these

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Powerline-Configuration-Required-TL-PA4010KIT-V1-20/dp/B01BECPIMC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489759820&sr=8-1&keywords=homeplugs

    As you can see the difference is pass through have the 3 holes for a plug so you don't lose say a wall socket.
  • S0litaire
    S0litaire Posts: 3,535
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    probably won't need the pass through version.
    Going to use the weekend to rearrange what gets plugged into where, then see what the situation is... ;)
    Laters

    Sol

    "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
  • mamazaac
    mamazaac Posts: 659
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    Would that be in the same room as the main router (and so using its wifi), or in the same room as the desktop pc ? You only described the relative placement of the router and the desktop, IIRC.

    My husband uses a laptop mainly in the same room as the main pc. Tablets/mobiles sometimes in the same room as the main router, sometimes in the kitchen (have dividing doors that open to lounge, so that doesn't have the same issues of walls in the way) and sometimes in the same room as the pc.
    It's definitely the wifi rather than the broadband, say ? Does the laptop behave fine when downstairs and connected to the router with an ethernet cable ?

    We have fibre broadband and, yes, a speed test with the laptop connected by ethernet to the router shows correct speeds.
    Well, the thing I had in mind was using a wired (via powerline adapters) connection from pc to router, and then the pc could itself act as a wifi hotspot, serving the upstairs and forwarding the traffic.

    This sounds like it could be the best idea. I didn't realise the pc could be set up in this way. I could then buy a cheaper powerline that didn't have a wi-fi hotspot. Can you tell me how to set my pc up as a wi-fi hotspot please?
    Not necessarily. Just seems that if upstairs is where it's needed, that would seem the obvious place to put it ?

    I see what you mean, but would prefer to minimise costs, so think making a wi-fi hotspot below his room and trying that is my first option.
    Sorry, cross-purposes... I was talking about the MIMO features on the powerline adapters you were looking at (AV2 - using all 3 wires for communication). This would be independent of anything the router is doing, since it would all be handled by the powerline adapters themselves. I'll admit I don't know a lot about the technology, though. But there doesn't seem to be much point massively overspec-ing the speed of one part of the link if there are slower paths (specificlally, your broadband speed). Of course, if you have a fibre connection, maybe it is your internal network.

    Yes, think definitely the internal network. Only brought this up as someone recommended I change my router and I can only afford to change to one which doesn't have MIMO, which to my uneducated mind seems would be a backward step to the one given to me by my broadband provider which does have MIMO. However, having read PC Advisor's article, I am wondering if one without MIMO would be better as most of our devices are quite old. Perhaps someone else reading this could advise on that please?
    I'm afraid I don't have any experience with 5GHz wifi, so can't be of any help there.

    No worries. So far as I can understand from what I have read on the internet, the only difference is that 5GHz is a less used frequency band so not slowed down so much by other traffic BUT is more affected by walls in the way. In our house, internet is slow on either, slightly faster I think on the 5GHz band despite the walls but still too slow.
  • psychic_teabag
    psychic_teabag Posts: 2,865
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    mamazaac wrote: »
    Well, the thing I had in mind was using a wired (via powerline adapters) connection from pc to router, and then the pc could itself act as a wifi hotspot, serving the upstairs and forwarding the traffic.

    This sounds like it could be the best idea. I didn't realise the pc could be set up in this way. I could then buy a cheaper powerline that didn't have a wi-fi hotspot. Can you tell me how to set my pc up as a wi-fi hotspot please?

    Technically it should be possible - just a case of finding software or a HOWTO to do it. (Quite straightforward on linux.) I'm not the best person to ask for windows, but googling for things like "share windows broadband over wireless" gives
    http://lifehacker.com/5369381/turn-your-windows-7-pc-into-a-wireless-hotspot
    http://www.thewindowsclub.com/enable-internet-sharing-wifi-hotspot-windows-8
    http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/turn-windows-wifi-hotspot-share-internet-connection/

    It should be free to give it a try. I don't know if a wireless card can be configured to be both a client of your main router's wifi and also a hotspot server. (Even if you can, it would obviously reduce the available bandwidth.) Might need to use a long ethernet cable to link pc to router for the purposes of the experiment. (This would be replaced by the powerline adapter once you get those.)

    Does anyone know about ad-hoc wifi ? Maybe this is another approach - rather than designating a single master wifi server, they're supposed to form on-the-fly links, possibly forwarding packets between themselves ? I know it exists, but I've never found very much information about them.
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