New heating system

pooch · 30 June 2018 at 10:00PM

ian103 wrote: »

Thanks Cardew, we had looked at upgrading the current storage heaters and making sure they were corretly sized, however it appears storage heaters that run on E7 are no longer manufactured, they have been affected by LOT20 and now have a daytime element that manitors / tops up the heat. To replace the heaters would have been a straightforward change, now we will require a second electric supply installing to each heater location, this will significantly increase the costs and make other options more viable.

We got the impression that these would merely become expensive heaters as on E7 the daytime tarriff is high so there would be some benefit of the E7 charge but offset by the daytime top up.

We have no personal experience / knowledge of the new style heaters but question if they will be cost effective.

Dimplex, as one example, still produce traditional storage heasters that operate on low rate electricity only.
Do not confuse with their Quantum range of heaters.

Other manufacturers of storage heaters are available.

ian103 · 30 June 2018 at 10:22PM

are you sure, other than the odd in stock heater they all seem to be smart heaters. ive checked elnur, creda, dimplex.

ian103 · 2 July 2018 at 9:34PM

potts8 wrote: »

I've recently had a plumber round to quote for upgrading our system and I was keen to compare ASHP to oil. He does install both types however he warned me off from ASHP due to my house not being suitable.
It's a 1980s build with part cavity wall insulation and 280mm loft insulation so I thought it would be ok but he strongly advised me to stay with oil.
I'd be keen to hear your experience and if you receive a similar message...

Potts, the company who do both air to water and oil, said either option would work, really down to us. The oil would perhaps be quicker in warm up operation.

matelodave · 3 July 2018 at 10:34AM

An air source heatpump (air-water) runs at a much lower temperature than an oil fired system so it's slower to react and will take a lot longer to reheat the house from cold. Running a heatpump at high temperatures (much above about 45 degrees) will decrease their efficiency and cost more.

They aren't really suited to on/off operation say an hour or so in the mornings and 3-4 hours at night. They work better when running almost continuously at a low level and then setting the temp back a bit overnight and during the day if you don't need heating.

We have a 140 sq.m bungalow, cavity wall insulation, double glazing and over 300mm of loft insulation. It's got underfloor heating (polypipe overlay) and an air source heat pump. The water flow temperature is between 30-40 degrees (weather compensated)

It works for us as we are at home all day and require heating all day. If we shut it right down in the winter it can take two days for the house to get up to temperature again unless I over-ride the settings and increase the flow temp significantly.

ian103 · 8 July 2018 at 9:41AM

OK, I think it safe to say we are totally confused as to the best way forward with a new heating system.
The options are:
1/ air to air, 2 outdoor units and 7 internal
2/ air to air, 1 outdoor unit and 4 internal
3/ air to water, heating only
4/ air to water, water and heating
5/ oil, heating only
6/ oil, water and heating
7/ elnur ecombi.
Currently the hot water is supplied via an undersink water heater and we have an electric shower. This works fine for us,

All options have their benefits / drawbacks so we are struggling to decide as its important to make the right choice as its a significant investment.

matelodave · 8 July 2018 at 11:18AM

We had a similar dilemma eight years ago when we move to our present place and 140m2 detached bungalow out in the Cambridgeshire Fens. Although it was 1980's buit it was in a bit of a sorry state and needed significant refurbishement - replacing the floors in the kitchen, bathroom and utility room, replacing or reboarding ceilings, a bit of remodelling , a new kitchen and bathroom.

The existing heating was manky looking E7 storage heaters which the previous owner couldn't afford to run so she used portable LPG heaters.

We decided to instal a poloypipe overlay wet underfloor heating system together with a Daikin Air Source Heatpump to provide our heating and hot water.

It was expensive, but it's reasonably cheap to run - our total energy consumption, heating, hot water, cooking washing etc ect is around 7000kwh a year of which around 3000 - 3500 is heating.

We get around £700 a year RHI for seven years (we've had four years worth so far) which will just about pay the cost of the ASHP.

If you are interested, you can PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you a write up with piccies just to give you some idea.

It wont suit everyone, but we are at home all day and it works for us

jk0 · 8 July 2018 at 11:27AM

I believe ground source works better in the cold months if you have the space & budget. (When it's very cold, the thing is drawing heat from a source above freezing, rather than a source below freezing.)

ian103 · 12 July 2018 at 9:06AM

We have now gone through the quotes, the preferred options are:-

air to air with a small independant company, their proposal seems sensible or maybe even a little our requirements (7 internal floor consoles and 2 outdoor units)

or

air to water system with a much larger company, which looks good value, however Im concerned that the heat pump seems small compared to others Ive seen around. They've calculated the heat loss etc, the only error I can see is they missed the fact its a suspended ground floor. They have said this will only make a minor difference and there is plenty of capacity in the heat pump, I have also asked to add a couple of extra rads to suit our needs, again the heat pump will cope. The heat pump should be sized to provide hot water albeit we wont be installing that part.

Is there a way to check their calculation as I really dont want to install a system that wont work properly.

NeilForth · 4 August 2018 at 8:58AM

Calor is offering free bulk vessel (LPG) installations. So long as you can locate the vessel within the regulations, this will be the cheapest form ofcentral heating you can install, and next to a heat pump, most likely the most economical to run.

Panel heaters in a small property are often the most economical type of heating system install when replacing storage heaters as the electrical wiring is already there. Usually you need to convert the supply of these heaters from an Economy 7 supply to permanent, which is done by the meter in most cases. The big advantage to panel heaters is they have no hidden costs, you run them until they break and replace. My advice would be to use Dimplex PLX of something like that, simple and reliable. If the property is well insulated, they are not that expensive to run, works well in modern flats.

Neil M. MCIPHE RP RHP EngTech

New heating system

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