AJ Bell / HL ISAs - no payment mechanism but to force sell
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Paying exact amounts by direct debit is also offered by II (and they have been pushing all investors to set this up).Selling down units to pay platform fees for no charge or paying the exact amount via direct debit.
Has selling down units for no charge been confirmed? (previous post only says it "doesn't mention any fees"). That's very nice if it includes investments in their ETFs, where you'd normally pay £7.50 for a trade.0 -
Paying exact amounts by direct debit is also offered by II (and they have been pushing all investors to set this up).
Yes but that's probably a bit easier on II given their fixed fee structure. Vanguard are the only platform I know who charge a variable percentage fee via DD.Has selling down units for no charge been confirmed? (previous post only says it "doesn't mention any fees"). That's very nice if it includes investments in their ETFs, where you'd normally pay £7.50 for a trade.
Yes they told me they were happy to sell down units and it was no inconvenience to them if customers want to run their account in that way as they see it as a valid approach so they do not charge. Vanguard only charge for ETF trades if you want a live price.
Alex0 -
What does Vanguard offer that the others don't?
Vanguard allow you to pay your fees by direct debit, so you don't need to keep a float of cash in your account, and you certainly don't need to sell assets to pay fees. Not many other platforms allow this, and the two mentioned upthread (AJ Bell & HL) definitely don't.0 -
As I mentioned, II also offer this. The other platform I use is iWeb and they get around the problem by not charging platform fees.ValiantSon wrote: »Vanguard allow you to pay your fees by direct debit, so you don't need to keep a float of cash in your account, and you certainly don't need to sell assets to pay fees. Not many other platforms allow this, and the two mentioned upthread (AJ Bell & HL) definitely don't.
I agree it's a poor show from HL and AJ Bell.0 -
As I mentioned, II also offer this. The other platform I use is iWeb and they get around the problem by not charging platform fees.
I agree it's a poor show from HL and AJ Bell.
As Alexland said, both II and iWeb are fixed fee platforms. Vanguard are the only percentage fee platform to offer direct debit fee payments.
It's good that II allow payment by direct debit, and iWeb requires you to put an additional £5 into your account for each trade to cover the costs, so if you want to invest £1,000, then you need to actually transfer £1,005 into your iWeb account. I don't have a problem with this approach either. When it comes to percentage fee platforms (which are the most appropriate type of platform in many circumstances, but by no means all) the service provided is poor.0 -
I'm still not buying the argument that fixed fee platforms 'don't count' because their direct debits are easier to administer. II may be fixed fee, but it charges different fixed fees to different customers depending on the combination of accounts they hold and whether they've linked accounts with other family members, so it does need to be computed for each customer and varied from time to time.ValiantSon wrote: »As Alexland said, both II and iWeb are fixed fee platforms. Vanguard are the only percentage fee platform to offer direct debit fee payments.
The Direct Debit system was designed to make it easy to collect variable payments. Where is the difficulty?
With iWeb, you really don't need to worry about whether you have an extra £5 cash on account to cover your costs - you can simply invest the £1000 and choose for the fee to be deducted from the amount invested so you end up with about £995 of your chosen investment.It's good that II allow payment by direct debit, and iWeb requires you to put an additional £5 into your account for each trade to cover the costs, so if you want to invest £1,000, then you need to actually transfer £1,005 into your iWeb account. I don't have a problem with theis approach either. When it comes to percentage fee platforms (which are the most appropriate type of platform in many circumstances, but by no means all) the service provided is poor.
In general, percentage fee platforms are best if you have a low portfolio value and/or you switch between investments frequently, while a fixed fee or no fee platform is better for those with high value portfolios and who do not switch between investments frequently. People tend to start out with the former and evolve towards the latter. But that's probably not relevant to this discussion.0 -
I'm still not buying the argument that fixed fee platforms 'don't count' because their direct debits are easier to administer.
That isn't the point being made. The point being made is that, aside from Vanguard Investor, no percentage fee platform allows you to pay charges by direct debit. You are reading something into what Alexland and I have written, which simply isn't there.II may be fixed fee, but it charges different fixed fees to different customers depending on the combination of accounts they hold and whether they've linked accounts with other family members, so it does need to be computed for each customer and varied from time to time.
And? What is the point you are making? This has nothing to do with whether or not there are any other percentage fee platforms who allow payment by direct debit.The Direct Debit system was designed to make it easy to collect variable payments. Where is the difficulty?
I never said that there was a difficulty! It isn't me who has chosen the fee structure and payment terms of the investment platforms! Look again at what I wrote, and you will see that I was being critical of platforms for not offering direct debit payment.With iWeb, you really don't need to worry about whether you have an extra £5 cash on account to cover your costs - you can simply invest the £1000 and choose for the fee to be deducted from the amount invested so you end up with about £995 of your chosen investment.
You are missing the point. If I want to invest £1,000 then I do need to deposit £1,005 into my iWeb account, otherwise I will only invest £995. I didn't say that this was wrong, it was more a case of simply making clear to anyone reading that to achieve the objective of investing a specific sum, they would need to fund the account by £5 more than this. Look at my post again, and you will see that I specifically said, "I don't have a problem with this approach either." (You even quoted this).In general, percentage fee platforms are best if you have a low portfolio value and/or you switch between investments frequently, while a fixed fee or no fee platform is better for those with high value portfolios and who do not switch between investments frequently. People tend to start out with the former and evolve towards the latter. But that's probably not relevant to this discussion.
Again, what is your point? I know all this, and I haven't disputed it. The thread revolves around a new(ish) investor who has a relatively small amount to invest, so my comments are naturally focused on that.
I can't help feeling that you are trying to argue for the sake of it.0 -
I'm not trying to argue, honest. I observed that prior to my posting in this thread discussion was around Vanguard, AJ Bell, HL and II. You commented "Vanguard are streets ahead in terms of having a sensible approach to paying fees". I intepreted that as being "streets ahead" of all other platforms, or at least streets ahead of all the others under discussion. Hence, I asked the question how in the knowledge that at least one other platform being discussed also offered direct debits... With which Alex responded that Vanguard also do not charge any fee if they have to sell investments to cover their fee, which I accept is an advantage Vanguard has over the others.ValiantSon wrote: »I can't help feeling that you are trying to argue for the sake of it.
Now on the point of me missing the point with regard to me "not buying the argument that fixed fee platforms 'don't count' because their direct debits are easier to administer", this was mainly in response to the comment "Yes but that's probably a bit easier on II given their fixed fee structure" made by Alex. You referred to his comment when you reiterated the fact that II is a fixed fee platform, so I assumed you were in agreement with his comment about it being easier for II. Hence, with two people (as I understood it at the time) suggesting it was easier for II, I felt this warranted further discussion, so I commented that I didn't buy that argument.
If you are now saying that you intended your earlier comment "Vanguard are streets ahead in terms of having a sensible approach to paying fees" to refer only to percentage fee platforms, then we are in complete agreement.
I'm sorry you felt my other comments 'missed the point', but they were really for clarification and discussion purposes rather forming some sort of rebuttal against anything you said.0 -
I'm not trying to argue, honest. I observed that prior to my posting in this thread discussion was around Vanguard, AJ Bell, HL and II. You commented "Vanguard are streets ahead in terms of having a sensible approach to paying fees". I intepreted that as being "streets ahead" of all other platforms, or at least streets ahead of all the others under discussion. Hence, I asked the question how in the knowledge that at least one other platform being discussed also offered direct debits... With which Alex responded that Vanguard also do not charge any fee if they have to sell investments to cover their fee, which I accept is an advantage Vanguard has over the others.
Now on the point of me missing the point with regard to me "not buying the argument that fixed fee platforms 'don't count' because their direct debits are easier to administer", this was mainly in response to the comment "Yes but that's probably a bit easier on II given their fixed fee structure" made by Alex. You referred to his comment when you reiterated the fact that II is a fixed fee platform, so I assumed you were in agreement with his comment about it being easier for II. Hence, with two people (as I understood it at the time) suggesting it was easier for II, I felt this warranted further discussion, so I commented that I didn't buy that argument.
If you are now saying that you intended your earlier comment "Vanguard are streets ahead in terms of having a sensible approach to paying fees" to refer only to percentage fee platforms, then we are in complete agreement.
I'm sorry you felt my other comments 'missed the point', but they were really for clarification and discussion purposes rather forming some sort of rebuttal against anything you said.
Thanks for your reply and clarification.
We are, then, in complete agreement.
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