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  • FIRST POST
    • westbridgfordguy
    • By westbridgfordguy 13th Jun 18, 1:17 PM
    • 68Posts
    • 21Thanks
    westbridgfordguy
    Job Offer without employment contract
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 18, 1:17 PM
    Job Offer without employment contract 13th Jun 18 at 1:17 PM
    I've been fortunate enough to be offered a job with another company which is a progression from my existing role, I verbally accepted their offer last week via the job agency which they are using then this week received a job offer through the post which detailed salary, hours, notice period, probation period, holiday entitlement and place of work. I took this as an unconditional job offer as there were no caveats attached to the offer.

    The accompanying letter also stated that a contract of employment would be raised subsequently once I had agreed a start date after consulting with my current employer. I telephoned the job agency to query this as throughout my past I had always been issued with a contract of employment at the point of being offered the job and not at some point later after I had handed my notice in.

    The recruiter seemed quite dismissive and told me that when he started his current role he had to wait 2 weeks after the job offer to receive a contract of employment, but he would query this with my new employer which I am still awaiting feedback from.

    Is this me being hyper cautious or should I wait until I receive the contract of employment before I hand my notice in, I am on 3 months notice which my new employer is aware of. My primary concern is that I receive the employment contract after I have tendered my notice and it contains lots of hidden "surprises", one of my concerns was my probation period being 6 months as stated on the job offer, would I be eligible to join the pension scheme in this extended period, would I be eligible for sick pay etc.

    Any comments would be gratefully received
Page 1
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Jun 18, 1:51 PM
    • 5,501 Posts
    • 9,464 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 18, 1:51 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 18, 1:51 PM
    It isn't a contract of employment - is a statement of the main particulars of employment, and in law the employer only had to provide it within two months of your starting employment. So this is a matter between your and the prospective employer- nothing to do with the agency. Although it rather sounds like you have received the document the law requires anyway - it's only a summary.

    Only the employer, or the agent if they have the information, can answer your questions about pension etc. And it isn't likely to be included in the summary document.

    The actual "contract" is a composite of this statement, employers policies and practices, cousin and practice, and other things - basically, Judy about anything an everything to do with the job.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 13th Jun 18, 2:05 PM
    • 5,471 Posts
    • 6,067 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 18, 2:05 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 18, 2:05 PM
    An unconditional job offer would be unusual, it is normally subject to satisfactory references from a previous employer. When I started working for DWP it was nearly six months before I actually saw a written contract of employment, and that only happened after the office manager got involved!
    • marlot
    • By marlot 13th Jun 18, 2:45 PM
    • 3,650 Posts
    • 2,771 Thanks
    marlot
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 18, 2:45 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 18, 2:45 PM
    In no other walk of life would you make such a big decision without reading the contract first. But it's increasingly common for employers to refuse to issue the contract until well after you've started. And the law is on their side.

    Press for it before you make your decision - but you may not get it.


    There is a contract in place from the beginning - but with a load of terms that you won't know about - and you might not have agreed with if you'd known before you started. Perhaps a restriction on where you can work when you move on? or a mobility clause?

    Most employers don't realise it, but they have a mind set of treating people as resources. This starts with the concept that they have something of value 'the job', to which they invite applicants. Applicants are expected to put in lots of time applying, but can be rejected without even a thank you.

    It can also show at interviews, when a token 2 minutes can be left at the end of the interview for questions you may have of them.

    The lack of a contract is another example of this unequal relationship. If the employment doesn't work out you can be dismissed - which for you is the loss of 100% of your income. But for the employer it is likely to be much less of an impact.

    As a job seeker you have to work out whether you trust the employer and are prepared to take the chance. I had an offer a few years ago where I decided I didn't quite trust the employer. They were a bit evasive when I asked some questions about how they worked. I turned their offer down despite it being a payrise and nearer home.

    When I interview, I make time for people to do a tour of our development areas, so the potential employee can see where they would be working, what our approach is, etc. This tour is led by someone who would be one of their peers, and it is made clear to both parties that they can discuss freely and that it isn't part of the selection process. I also have a blank standard contract available if people want to see it.
    Last edited by marlot; 13-06-2018 at 2:51 PM.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 13th Jun 18, 5:22 PM
    • 39,058 Posts
    • 35,948 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 18, 5:22 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 18, 5:22 PM
    Only the employer, or the agent if they have the information, can answer your questions about pension etc. And it isn't likely to be included in the summary document.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    I know that with auto-enrolment pensions employers can defer enrolling new employees, but only for three months.
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    • westbridgfordguy
    • By westbridgfordguy 13th Jun 18, 5:55 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    westbridgfordguy
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 18, 5:55 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 18, 5:55 PM
    In no other walk of life would you make such a big decision without reading the contract first. But it's increasingly common for employers to refuse to issue the contract until well after you've started. And the law is on their side.

    Press for it before you make your decision - but you may not get it.

    There is a contract in place from the beginning - but with a load of terms that you won't know about - and you might not have agreed with if you'd known before you started. Perhaps a restriction on where you can work when you move on? or a mobility clause?

    The lack of a contract is another example of this unequal relationship. If the employment doesn't work out you can be dismissed - which for you is the loss of 100% of your income. But for the employer it is likely to be much less of an impact.
    Originally posted by marlot
    My sentiments exactly. The recruiter seemed quite blas! about the matter of a contract being issued at some point in time but I guess he's only interested now in his 20%. I was made to feel very uncomfortable on the telephone yesterday when I spoke to the recruiter as I am narurally a very cautious person and don't want to hand my notice in then receive a contract which has certain conditions or exclusions which I will therefore have to accept having already tendered my resignation. I was under the assumption that my contract would be a generic one so it wouldnt be any hardship for the company to just issue this with TBC against my start date.
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 13th Jun 18, 5:56 PM
    • 3,385 Posts
    • 1,764 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 18, 5:56 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 18, 5:56 PM

    The accompanying letter also stated that a contract of employment would be raised subsequently once I had agreed a start date after consulting with my current employer. I telephoned the job agency to query this as throughout my past I had always been issued with a contract of employment at the point of being offered the job and not at some point later after I had handed my notice in.

    Any comments would be gratefully received
    Originally posted by westbridgfordguy
    Times changed! I havenít had one Employer in the last 2 years offer an advance of contract. Itís normally done when it is to late I have found - it is your last day or they know you should have finished. One employer I would have finished at 4pm and the new employer waited until 4:45 that day to issue anything, it was Friday EOD before I started Monday.

    It could be a competitor thing? Not wanting to have terms and potential other stuff leaked, that is all I put it down to.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • westbridgfordguy
    • By westbridgfordguy 13th Jun 18, 6:16 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    westbridgfordguy
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 18, 6:16 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 18, 6:16 PM
    Times changed! I havenít had one Employer in the last 2 years offer an advance of contract. Itís normally done when it is to late I have found - it is your last day or they know you should have finished. One employer I would have finished at 4pm and the new employer waited until 4:45 that day to issue anything, it was Friday EOD before I started Monday.

    It could be a competitor thing? Not wanting to have terms and potential other stuff leaked, that is all I put it down to.
    Originally posted by keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    I personally think it's a resource thing; it's only a relatively small company and I think that there is only one HR Manager there whom deals with matters as such. Or I could be wrong and as you said they genuinely dont view it as a burning priority if they have already issued me with the job offer and they have my 3 months notice period to raise an employment contract.
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