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  • FIRST POST
    • mowgli72
    • By mowgli72 4th Dec 19, 2:12 PM
    • 6Posts
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    mowgli72
    Claim Form received, defence advice needed!
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 19, 2:12 PM
    Claim Form received, defence advice needed! 4th Dec 19 at 2:12 PM
    I received a windscreen PCN back in August 2018 for not displaying a valid ticket in a pay and display car park that ajoins a supermarket. In my defence I didn't see the single machine which covers a relatively large area. There are no other signs in the area other than on the post with the machine - I have a photo of this, and a video of the whole area shot from the passenger seat, which I am hoping to use as part of my defence.


    Unfortunately my limited initial research lead me to believe that the whole thing was a scam, and as such I ignored every letter from the parking company (LPS), DRP, Zenith (trading name of DRP), and also a letter from Gladstones (signed electronically as 'Gladstones Solicitors'), then the LBC from Gladstones (this wasn't signed).


    I eventually received the Claim Form, and have responded with the AOS, so have a couple of weeks to file my defence.


    Whilst my defence is straightforward, in that I didn't see the inadequeate signage, my challenge is turning this into something that would be considered a strong defence in a court, so I'm asking on here if anyone can assist?
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 4th Dec 19, 2:18 PM
    • 5,960 Posts
    • 7,749 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 19, 2:18 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 19, 2:18 PM
    What is the ISSUE DATE on the Claim form?

    You odnt attach any evidence at all to your defence. You assert that the signage was not prominent enough that you could havebeen expected to see it. Was it at night, so even les slikely to see it?

    Haveyou read post 2 of the newbies thread, and the 17 defences there?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Dec 19, 2:29 PM
    • 79,154 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 4th Dec 19, 2:29 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Dec 19, 2:29 PM
    also a letter from Gladstones (signed electronically as 'Gladstones Solicitors'), then the LBC from Gladstones (this wasn't signed).
    None of that matters. It is OK for them not to sign.

    Your defence will be like the rest relying on dodgy signage, and can be based on bargepole's concise examples at this stage.

    Alleged contravention? You didn't display at all and stayed an hour? Minutes?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • mowgli72
    • By mowgli72 4th Dec 19, 2:36 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    mowgli72
    • #4
    • 4th Dec 19, 2:36 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Dec 19, 2:36 PM
    Thanks for the quick response nosferatu1001. The issue date is 11th Nov 2019. From research on this site, I believe I have until 14th December to file the defence.


    It was daylight but due to the position of the sign, if parked next to somebody or there are other vehicles in eyeline between myself and the sign, even when outside the car, then the sign is not visible.


    I've gone back to the site recently to confirm this.


    I've read post 2 of the newbies thread and in particular the two threads related to inadequate/poor signage but these seemed too specific for me to use as my defence.


    Thanks again.
    • mowgli72
    • By mowgli72 4th Dec 19, 2:38 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    mowgli72
    • #5
    • 4th Dec 19, 2:38 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Dec 19, 2:38 PM
    Thanks Coupon-mad. The alleged contravention is 'Parking without displaying a valid ticket' and I was parked for no more than ten minutes.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 4th Dec 19, 3:00 PM
    • 7,498 Posts
    • 8,064 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 19, 3:00 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 19, 3:00 PM
    The issue date is 11th Nov 2019. From research on this site, I believe I have until 14th December to file the defence.
    That cannot be right as 14th December is a Saturday! However, stick around and KeithP will be along to give you the proper dates and some sound advice.
    • mowgli72
    • By mowgli72 4th Dec 19, 3:17 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    mowgli72
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 19, 3:17 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 19, 3:17 PM
    Many thanks Le_Kirk!
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Dec 19, 3:21 PM
    • 18,997 Posts
    • 23,669 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 19, 3:21 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 19, 3:21 PM
    The issue date is 11th Nov 2019. From research on this site, I believe I have until 14th December to file the defence.
    Originally posted by mowgli72
    As Le_Kirk says, that isn't quite right.

    With a Claim Issue Date of 11th November, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 16th December 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's nearly two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:
    1. Print your Defence.
    2. Sign it and date it.
    3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
    7. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are trying to keep you under pressure. Just file it.
    8. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Dec 19, 3:51 PM
    • 79,154 Posts
    • 93,009 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 19, 3:51 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 19, 3:51 PM
    Whilst my defence is straightforward - inadequate signage,
    And lack of a ten minute grace period to read prominently displayed terms.

    And all the usual stuff seen in the defence examples in the NEWBIES thread post #2.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • blueskies1
    • By blueskies1 4th Dec 19, 4:13 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    blueskies1
    I am also in the same position, the only difference is I have had two pcn's from One Parking Solution and a recent claim form from Gladstones Solicitors also with issue date 11th November 2019. I have acknowledged and am preparing a defense, could anyone assist me with this? I am happy to attend Brighton court to defend? Many thanks!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Dec 19, 4:17 PM
    • 79,154 Posts
    • 93,009 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yep, send me a pm.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • blueskies1
    • By blueskies1 4th Dec 19, 4:43 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    blueskies1
    Yep, send me a pm.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thank you, have PM'd!
    • mowgli72
    • By mowgli72 6th Dec 19, 11:46 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mowgli72
    Thank you KeithP - very much appreciated!


    I've also found that the BPA's guidance for the sign denoting the terms and conditions should be no less than 450mm x 450mm, but the single sign on the site is 400mm x 600mm so it doesn't even look like LPS follow their own AOS' code of practice!



    I have just one other question for now - I intend to take photographic and video evidence with me to court - what's the best format to use for the video?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 6th Dec 19, 1:39 PM
    • 18,997 Posts
    • 23,669 Thanks
    KeithP
    I have just one other question for now - I intend to take photographic and video evidence with me to court - what's the best format to use for the video?
    Originally posted by mowgli72
    It must be sent on a 'durable medium' to both the Claimant and the Court.

    A 'durable medium' is something that once sent cannot be altered by the sender.

    In the case of video, that means you are effectively limited to either a CD/DVD, or memory stick/card.

    A video file as an attachment to an email is another example of a 'durable medium', but you might need the explicit agreement of the court and the claimant to accept evidence that way.

    A link to a Dropbox file, a Youtube file, or indeed a link to anywhere, is not acceptable as you could alter that file after the link has been sent.

    You also need to consider how you are going to show the video at the hearing. Take a laptop or tablet with you that is capable of playing the chosen durable medium.
    .
    • 30057207
    • By 30057207 6th Dec 19, 4:37 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    30057207
    Help with defence
    Hi, have also been issued 1 of these and wondered if anyone could go over my defence please as it wasnt me that parked the car where i have been pictured and find. Car was having an MOT and the garage parked my car there and i have only found out now over 2 years since this was taken.

    thanks
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 6th Dec 19, 5:24 PM
    • 7,498 Posts
    • 8,064 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Hi, have also been issued 1 of these and wondered if anyone could go over my defence please as it wasnt me that parked the car where i have been pictured and find. Car was having an MOT and the garage parked my car there and i have only found out now over 2 years since this was taken.

    thanks
    Originally posted by 30057207
    Yep, just start your own thread, give details, such as the car park, the PPC, what you have done so far and, of course, your defence.
    • mowgli72
    • By mowgli72 9th Dec 19, 4:37 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mowgli72
    Thanks again KeithP - today I filed my defence. I'll keep the board updated with progress.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 9th Dec 19, 4:42 PM
    • 41,340 Posts
    • 91,621 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I'm surprised you submitted it without asking the regulars to look it over for you first.

    Do you want to show it to us now?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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