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  • FIRST POST
    • HotelUniform74
    • By HotelUniform74 4th Dec 19, 3:14 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 5Thanks
    HotelUniform74
    Timestamp needed on photo also advice re blue badge owner
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 19, 3:14 PM
    Timestamp needed on photo also advice re blue badge owner 4th Dec 19 at 3:14 PM
    Hello,

    I've read the newbie thread and I can't see anything related to the concerns I want to raise, so please forgive me if I'm doing something wrong.

    1) I've received an invoice from an IPC member that states "photographic evidence shows the vehicle entering the location at xx:xx and leaving at yy:you. The photographs show only a picture of the front of the car and rear of the car, in total darkness, with two separate pictures of the car's license plate. There is no timestamp on any of the 4 pictures . How is this evidence without a timestamp?

    2) The overstay is by 16 minutes. I'm disabled with a blue badge, should this be taken into consideration regarding any grace period?

    Many thanks.
Page 2
    • HotelUniform74
    • By HotelUniform74 5th Dec 19, 9:31 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    HotelUniform74
    From their website, click on Contact Us.
    Then click on Contact our Teams.
    Then click on Contact our Business Rates team.
    Submit your query - which will be something like "can you please tell me the name and address of whoever pays the Business Rates for Keaton Rd car park, Ivybridge, PL21 9DH".

    I suspect the answer will be Ivybridge Freemasons as suggested in post #14 above.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Thanks again so much.

    I've submitted an enquiry thanks to your help above.
    • HotelUniform74
    • By HotelUniform74 5th Dec 19, 9:37 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    HotelUniform74
    If you need extra time due to a disability, then your first point of call should be with the landowner.
    hence it is important to know who this is, what type of car park it is and so on, as mentioned above.
    Originally posted by Half_way
    Hi thanks for your message.

    Can you explain why I'd need to contact the landowner in this instance please?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Dec 19, 9:42 AM
    • 15,977 Posts
    • 16,766 Thanks
    The Deep
    Have you read this?

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/duty-to-make-reasonable-adjustments-for-disabled-people/

    Have they complied? If not and it gets to court a judge may take a dim view

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, as it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

    .
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • HotelUniform74
    • By HotelUniform74 5th Dec 19, 9:47 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    HotelUniform74
    I've dug out the ticket I bought and would like some help understanding the below please as I find it quite confusing.

    Ticket was bought at 17:55 for an hour, costing 70p. The ticket says it expired at 18:00

    The signage says 70p an hour from 08:00 til 18:00, then 2 flat rate from 18:00 til 08:00.

    My question is whether the expiry is correct? In my opinion it should have expired at 18:55. It doesn't seem fair or reasonable if you're paying 70p for 5 minutes, then have to come back and put 2 in? Unless I'm reading it wrong?

    Thanks.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Dec 19, 9:53 AM
    • 25,841 Posts
    • 33,256 Thanks
    Redx
    Is a good question for a judge

    As for contacting the landowner , they should have given permission or have a contract flowing from themselves through to the PPC , they have responsibility for themselves and contractors under the EA2010

    They should have the power to cancel the PCN

    They may be appalled at the actions of their PPC

    Not complaining perpetuates the sc@m
    Last edited by Redx; 05-12-2019 at 9:56 AM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Dec 19, 9:58 AM
    • 15,977 Posts
    • 16,766 Thanks
    The Deep
    I think that a judge and TMOTCO would agree that your ticket expired atn 18.55 but it would depend on what the sign says. If it says that 5 minutes from 17.55 18.00 costs 70p then this may well be an unfair term in a consumer contract under CRA 2015. I would write to Trading Standards, read this,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_proferentem.

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, as it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.





    If there is doubt, this applies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • HotelUniform74
    • By HotelUniform74 5th Dec 19, 3:03 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    HotelUniform74
    Hello again,

    I have a query based on what I just noticed about my "parking charge":

    The letter says period of parking 17:51, yet the ticket I bought says 17:55. Is this fair?

    They don't appear to give a second to buy ticket and stick in the window?!?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Dec 19, 3:07 PM
    • 25,841 Posts
    • 33,256 Thanks
    Redx
    The Cop gives guidance on grace periods , post #2 on page 1 gave you that answer

    Fairness only applies in court

    4 to 10 minutes grace before purchasing a ticket is typical

    There was a court ruling about when the parking period starts , possibly NCP ? , It starts when the button is pressed to get the ticket

    Welcome to OUR world
    Last edited by Redx; 05-12-2019 at 3:11 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 5th Dec 19, 3:10 PM
    • 5,965 Posts
    • 7,751 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Indeed, NCp
    The contract starts in P&D when the ticket is bought. not before, at some unknown time on the perimeer
    Its also a lie. Moving in frontof a camera is not, under ANY stretch of the term, "parking". its just their contemptible attmept to try to meet their POFA obligations.
    • HotelUniform74
    • By HotelUniform74 5th Dec 19, 3:25 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    HotelUniform74
    Have you read this?

    Have they complied? If not and it gets to court a judge may take a dim view

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, as it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.


    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

    .
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Hello, thanks for your message, I have contacted trading standards, thanks to your help and advice. The message I wrote to them is below. Would you or any other knowledgeable people be able to give it a once over please?

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I have received a "parking charge" from Premier Parking Solutions Ltd, PD Box 471, Newton Abbot, TQ12 9FX, for parking at Keaton Rd Car Park, Ivybridge, PL21 9DH

    I believe their "parking charge" constitutes an unfair term in a consumer contract under CRA 2015.

    As a blue badge owner, I also feel I have been the victim of indirect discrimination under the Equality Act 2010.

    This is because the period of parking under the "parking charge" starts at 17:51, yet my purchased ticket starts at 17:55. The ticket "expired" at 18:00, yet I paid 70p to park for an hour. I believe this constitutes "contra proferentem", i.e. that the t&cs were ambiguous, perhaps deliberately so, in order to disadvantage me.

    Also, under the Equality Act 2010, I am entitled to "reasonable adjustments" and to not make reasonable adjustments constitutes an act of indirect discrimination. The period of parking expired, according to the "parking charge" at 19:07. Given that I paid for an hour at 17:55, the grace period of 12 minutes is not sufficient to allow me to get my parking ticket, get back to the car and exit the carpark. Nor is it sufficient to allow me to return to the car.

    Premier Parking Solutions are a member of the IPC (Independent Parking Committee) and their own guidance says only that "drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to park and leave the site". It does not give an amount of time.

    Also, given that the "parking charge" was from the moment I entered the carpark to the moment I left, I do not believe they have given any "grace period" at all under the IPC's own terms and conditions, and clearly this was not extended for a disabled person, who has a right to reasonable adjustments under the Equality Act 2010.
    Last edited by HotelUniform74; 05-12-2019 at 3:32 PM.
    • HotelUniform74
    • By HotelUniform74 5th Dec 19, 3:28 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    HotelUniform74
    The Cop gives guidance on grace periods , post #2 on page 1 gave you that answer

    Fairness only applies in court

    4 to 10 minutes grace before purchasing a ticket is typical

    There was a court ruling about when the parking period starts , possibly NCP ? , It starts when the button is pressed to get the ticket

    Welcome to OUR world
    Originally posted by Redx
    Would that also be 4 - 10 minutes after "session expired" too?

    I am a total of 12 minutes over the "session time". Is this fair and reasonable for a disabled person, or even an able bodied person?

    Also who is "the cop" please? I can't see any post on this thread by anyone by this username? Thanks.
    Last edited by HotelUniform74; 05-12-2019 at 3:30 PM.
    • HotelUniform74
    • By HotelUniform74 5th Dec 19, 3:36 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    HotelUniform74
    Premier Parking Solutions have asked that I appeal within 21 days of the 2nd day after they sent me the letter.

    They want me to lodge an appeal online or by post.

    If that's unsuccessful, they want me to then appeal to the IAS.

    Should I or should I not write an appeal at this stage?

    How would I write an appeal given my circumstances and my complaint of indirect discrimination under Equality Act 2010?

    Many, many thanks.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Dec 19, 3:40 PM
    • 25,841 Posts
    • 33,256 Thanks
    Redx
    CoP means Code Of Practice , it's an acronym , there are 2 at the moment , the BPA Cop and the IPC CoP as you have mentioned in your letter , we are awaiting the government CoP following assent of the Parking Bill by Sir Greg Knight , which should supercede them both

    The BPA Cop allows for 2 grace periods ,

    one to park , read signs and purchase a ticket

    One after the parking time ends to depart

    Never mind the EA 2010 reasonable adjustments angle by parking company and landowner as well

    It is reasonable to assume that it is a fair test if the BPA allow it under clause #13 , so the IPC should too
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • 1505grandad
    • By 1505grandad 5th Dec 19, 4:14 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 640 Thanks
    1505grandad
    For your info - "IPC (Independent Parking Committee)"

    IPC = International Parking Community
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Dec 19, 1:53 AM
    • 79,154 Posts
    • 93,010 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Premier Parking Solutions have asked that I appeal within 21 days of the 2nd day after they sent me the letter.

    They want me to lodge an appeal online or by post.

    If that's unsuccessful, they want me to then appeal to the IAS.
    Course they do, because they know it is a kangaroo court that you are bound to lose, a you have read on every other IPC thread.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=76561102#post76561102

    Search the forum for 'IPC see you in 2020'

    No need for updates - see you in 2020.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 07-12-2019 at 2:02 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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