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    • JJ1992
    • By JJ1992 4th Dec 19, 5:33 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 0Thanks
    JJ1992
    Taken to County Court by VCS after appeal was rejected.... PLEASE HELP
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 19, 5:33 PM
    Taken to County Court by VCS after appeal was rejected.... PLEASE HELP 4th Dec 19 at 5:33 PM
    Hi Everyone,

    I have been sent a claim for 185!!! for not parking wholly within the markings of the bay (i was at most 20cm over the line) at a train station car park. I have sent my AOS saying i wish to defend all of this claim as the reason I was over the lines of the bay was due to another car previously being over the bay that was at a 90 degree angle to me and i was not able to park in the bay correctly due to this. Furthermore as my bay was not next to any other bay (only at 90 degrees to 3 other bays) i was not causing any other car any issues parking. I submitted an appeal directly to VCS which was rejected. Surely the 185 is completely disproportionate and i have mitigating reasons for parking as such (although no evidence).

    I have searched and seen any other threads where a defense was successfully made for this issue so any help would be greatly appreciated as i'm furious how they have the cheek to charge this!!
    Last edited by JJ1992; 04-12-2019 at 5:46 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 4th Dec 19, 5:41 PM
    • 25,838 Posts
    • 33,255 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 19, 5:41 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Dec 19, 5:41 PM
    train stations are covered by bylaws so this may influence any replies, so what happened on the day may not be relevant

    post the ISSUE DATE from the claim form below

    post the link to the thread you have found too

    please note there is no S in DEFENCE, use UK spelling for this, not USA

    as for the claim , if the claimant wins the total cost including legal fees can be up to about 200 , so 185 seems reasonable as long as its say 100 plus legal fees and filing fees


    the BARRY BEAVIS case killed off the disproprtionate argument , albeit on a free private car park, not a train station
    Last edited by Redx; 04-12-2019 at 5:43 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Dec 19, 12:49 AM
    • 79,154 Posts
    • 93,009 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 5th Dec 19, 12:49 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Dec 19, 12:49 AM
    Forget contesting jurisdiction, as VCS throw the taxi case at these railway ones.

    Surely the 185 is completely disproportionate
    Yes. Read CEC16's thread.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • JJ1992
    • By JJ1992 5th Dec 19, 1:58 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JJ1992
    • #4
    • 5th Dec 19, 1:58 PM
    Re:
    • #4
    • 5th Dec 19, 1:58 PM
    Issue Date was 11th November. I know I have 28 days from this date to submit my defence.

    I thought going down the route of arguing the amount being charged is disproportionate is the best chance I've got as i have no evidence of the other car encroaching previously which caused me to park over the line?

    Thread that i have found relating to this is /showthread.php?p=75917866&posted=1#post75917866[/url]. It wont let me post a link as a new user.

    which references the Parking Code of Practice Act (2019)

    Could you point me in the direction of the taxi case?

    Thanks for your responses.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Dec 19, 2:06 PM
    • 18,997 Posts
    • 23,669 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #5
    • 5th Dec 19, 2:06 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Dec 19, 2:06 PM
    Issue Date was 11th November. I know I have 28 days from this date to submit my defence.
    Originally posted by JJ1992
    That's not quite right. You have longer than you think.

    With a Claim Issue Date of 11th November, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 16th December 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's well over a week away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:
    1. Print your Defence.
    2. Sign it and date it.
    3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
    7. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are trying to keep you under pressure. Just file it.
    8. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 5th Dec 19, 4:40 PM
    • 41,340 Posts
    • 91,621 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #6
    • 5th Dec 19, 4:40 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Dec 19, 4:40 PM
    If byelaws apply then you should not mention anything about who parked/paid etcetera. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper on this thread.

    The charge being disproportionate should not be used as a defence point. The claim being an abuse of process should be if a fake amount (usually 60) has been added.

    Read beamerguy's abuse of process thread and use the comments by C-m in post 14 of that thread in your defence.

    Also quote that since railway byelaws apply, the keeper cannot be held liable, assuming the driver has not previously been identified.
    If the driver has been identify, then state that since byelaws apply, a claim for breach can only be made in the Magistrate's Court by the landowner or ToC.

    Inadequate signage is another strong point, so get pics of the site and signage in similar light conditions.

    Not the landowner and no standing (no valid contract with the landowner) are also good defence points.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 05-12-2019 at 4:53 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • JJ1992
    • By JJ1992 5th Dec 19, 9:09 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JJ1992
    • #7
    • 5th Dec 19, 9:09 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Dec 19, 9:09 PM
    Thanks for the responses again, so just to be clear what would my best form of defence be here?

    I have identified myself as the driver in the appeal stage (stupid in hindsight but i hadn't read these forums at that stage) so is saying "a claim for breach can only be made in the Magistrate's Court by the landowner or ToC" a viable defence?

    With regards to signage they now have signs all over the car park that were not there at the time so that would be hard to argue.

    I will draft my defence using the comments from the thread suggested regarding abuse of process and post a draft on here for you helpful lot to critique.

    As an aside have i got a decent chance of winning this via any of the above defences or would i be wasting my time as i haven't much evidence?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Dec 19, 9:40 PM
    • 18,997 Posts
    • 23,669 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 19, 9:40 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Dec 19, 9:40 PM
    You haven't told us where this happened, but will Google StreetView show the lack of signs at the time of the incident?

    Are there other pictures available of the earlier signage?
    Perhaps on the internet, or even on this forum?
    .
    • JJ1992
    • By JJ1992 6th Dec 19, 8:31 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JJ1992
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 19, 8:31 AM
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 19, 8:31 AM
    I didn't want to give too many specific details away as i've heard that the scumbags search these forums. I will have a look.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Dec 19, 8:53 AM
    • 15,977 Posts
    • 16,766 Thanks
    The Deep
    If you have named yourself as the driver then Contract Law applies. Bye laws only protect you if they do not know who was driving. However, many judges regard this type of claim as de minimis.

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, as it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.


    Also, they may be claiming more than the law allows, read this

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6014081
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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