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  • FIRST POST
    • 6022tivo
    • By 6022tivo 19th Oct 19, 10:47 PM
    • 609Posts
    • 133Thanks
    6022tivo
    Basic Chat with an IFA
    • #1
    • 19th Oct 19, 10:47 PM
    Basic Chat with an IFA 19th Oct 19 at 10:47 PM
    Like this is impossible...

    I have money scattered around in places I think are best, I have schemes ongoing.
    I use salary sacrifice to stick 70% ish into my pension. I pay no tax.

    I just want to sit with an IFA for an hour over a coffee in a cafe and go thought my stuff and thought process without ongoing commitment, pressure to sign up to managed funds or anything like that.

    Happy to pay? £100 + vat?? Fair?

    So... I have contacted two local IFA with what I want. One hasn't replied, the other has said the same spiel as their website (Copy and paste).

    Basically, the first visit is free when you fill out a form and hand over your life on paper, then the second visit is a chargeable visit with funds and services offered they think are good for me with fees listed etc, and annual reviews (No commitment though)....

    Like is it really not too much to ask, to have a natter and a charge, then nothing else?



    I have also 2 premium bank accounts, and had an appointment set with one, the chap called me up the night before and I said what I wanted from the visit, and he basically said, its a fixed risk/service review and if I'm not thinking of investing, there is no point of the meeting, and he cancelled it...


    Am I really asking too much?
Page 2
    • Albermarle
    • By Albermarle 20th Oct 19, 11:17 AM
    • 1,727 Posts
    • 1,110 Thanks
    Albermarle
    I also have an old works pension that is final salary and I've been told to leave this alone as they don't really do them anymore. So wondering if this is the same advice? The final figure does not appear to be going up with inflation though? Not sure if it should?
    Having an old final salary scheme you have probably two options:
    1) Leave it alone and enjoy the guaranteed annual income when you take it. Regarding inflation linking etc you need to find the scheme details to be sure of the rules of the scheme ( they are not all the same )
    2) Ask the scheme providers if they will provide you with a CETV ( cash equivalent transfer value) . These are offered in return for you transferring out of the final salary scheme ( into a DC scheme ) and the provider is then freed from the future liability of paying you a guaranteed income until you die.
    Often the CETV will be temptingly large,but there are a lot of issues to consider before giving up a guaranteed income . Also if the value is above £30K you will have to pay a specialised IFA to analyse the situation and it will cost a LOT more than £100 !
    • Linton
    • By Linton 20th Oct 19, 11:20 AM
    • 11,371 Posts
    • 11,791 Thanks
    Linton
    I salary sacrifice 75% into a Aviva Fund that is pretty generic and company negotiated (Fee looks lowish) company pay their NI Saving and 10% as well.
    I can log in and change funds if required.
    I keep my salary to just under the Basic Tax Rate.

    As far as I see it's savy and tax efficient, what else could they tell me to do?
    Originally posted by 6022tivo

    - Perhaps the generic fund is too cautious and not giving sufficient return for you to reach your objective and so something different would be better for your circumstances.
    - Perhaps you are putting too much into your pension and at risk of exceeding the Lifetime Allowance before you retire.
    - Putting 75% of your income into a pension sounds a lot. It could be argued that there is no point in living on the breadline now and then having so much in your pension when you retire that you wont be able to (or would not know how to) spend it before you die.
    - When do you intend to retire. If you havent thought about it, you should.
    - Do you own your own home? If not you should seriously consider it.
    - Dependents/spouse? If so what would happen should you die.

    I also have an old works pension that is final salary and I've been told to leave this alone as they don't really do them anymore. So wondering if this is the same advice? The final figure does not appear to be going up with inflation though? Not sure if it should?
    You would need a good reason to move out of a DB pension. If you dont have one, dont do it. How or if a DB pension increases over time should be explained in the scheme rules. Have you read them? When did you start and leave the DB pension scheme? The law has changed several times over the years.
    • 6022tivo
    • By 6022tivo 20th Oct 19, 11:56 AM
    • 609 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    6022tivo
    - Perhaps the generic fund is too cautious and not giving sufficient return for you to reach your objective and so something different would be better for your circumstances.
    - Perhaps you are putting too much into your pension and at risk of exceeding the Lifetime Allowance before you retire.
    - Putting 75% of your income into a pension sounds a lot. It could be argued that there is no point in living on the breadline now and then having so much in your pension when you retire that you wont be able to (or would not know how to) spend it before you die.
    - When do you intend to retire. If you havent thought about it, you should.
    - Do you own your own home? If not you should seriously consider it.
    - Dependents/spouse? If so what would happen should you die.
    Originally posted by Linton
    First important point is I don't like to gamble, I don't want to risk too much for reward. May not make much sense to you guys, but it's a personal thing.
    So HIGH risk stock market heavy investments I'm not keen on.

    The Generic Fund is... Aviva Av MyM My Future Growth
    Risk 4?
    The annual charge is 0.35%.
    I can switch around and move funds around to hundreds (No proper understanding of this)
    I pay 75%ish of my salary in through salary sacrifice, my company pay 10% in, they also pay their saving of NI which is very kind of them (As not required apparently).
    I have been told (Not sure if true) my maximum pension pot is limited to £1m? I will never make that value.

    I have a DB old pension of which the details are.
    Started in 1998, left the company in 2010, pensionable service 9yr 2m, changed from full time to part time somewhere during that.
    The Plan is contracted-out of the State Second Pension (S2P):
    Plan increases by 5% or RPI per year.
    Pensionable Remuneration used in Calculation £21k Per Annum
    Your benefits become payable from xx/xx/2039
    Total Pension at leaving £3k Per Annum
    This never appears to change everytime I log in and check??
    However when I go to the projection page, I can select 65 as a retirement age and it says - Gross Retirement Pension £5k Per Annum
    or £19k tax free cash and a adjusted pension of £3k per annum?It also offers a transfer out value of £156k which appears very high?



    I have no end game.
    I just want to be efficient.
    I own a house.
    I have no debt.
    I have other cash isa's.
    I have many index linked savings (NSI) I can fall back on if needed.
    I live very conservatively, and have no interest in spending or buying anything at the moment.
    I can still save and live happily on my £11kish income.
    Last edited by 6022tivo; 20-10-2019 at 12:01 PM.
    • Flobberchops
    • By Flobberchops 20th Oct 19, 12:10 PM
    • 1,210 Posts
    • 1,113 Thanks
    Flobberchops
    I only skimmed but I think I agree with the general consensus - if you want an IFA's advice then play by IFA rules. If it was industry standard to make £100 for an "informal chat" then they would all be doing it. In reality I expect that would lead to all kind of litigation that simply wouldn't be worth the risk.



    Informal chat -> £100 profit -> Get sued because some guy misconstrued your mentioning of cryptocurrency as advice to plough their life savings and pension into "the next Bitcoin" -> £50,000 loss.


    If you just want a chat or a sounding board then, as suggested, post here for free. You'll have to decipher the noise to signal ratio yourself!
    I work for a UK bank, but any comments made on this forum are solely my personal opinion. Caveat Emptor!
    • Linton
    • By Linton 20th Oct 19, 12:17 PM
    • 11,371 Posts
    • 11,791 Thanks
    Linton
    First important point is I don't like to gamble, I don't want to risk too much for reward. May not make much sense to you guys, but it's a personal thing.
    So HIGH risk stock market heavy investments I'm not keen on.

    The Generic Fund is... Aviva Av MyM My Future Growth
    Risk 4?
    The annual charge is 0.35%.
    I can switch around and move funds around to hundreds (No proper understanding of this)
    I pay 75%ish of my salary in through salary sacrifice, my company pay 10% in, they also pay their saving of NI which is very kind of them (As not required apparently).
    I have been told (Not sure if true) my maximum pension pot is limited to £1m? I will never make that value.

    I have a DB old pension of which the details are.
    Started in 1998, left the company in 2010, pensionable service 9yr 2m, changed from full time to part time somewhere during that.
    The Plan is contracted-out of the State Second Pension (S2P):
    Plan increases by 5% or RPI per year.
    Pensionable Remuneration used in Calculation £21k Per Annum
    Your benefits become payable from xx/xx/2039
    Total Pension at leaving £3k Per Annum
    This never appears to change everytime I log in and check??
    Originally posted by 6022tivo
    It wont change. It is simply an historical statement of the position when you left the scheme.

    However when I go to the projection page, I can select 65 as a retirement age and it says - Gross Retirement Pension £5k Per Annum
    This is the number that matters. It seems to be based on £3000/yeear in 2010 increasing by 2% inflation until 2039.

    or £19k tax free cash and a adjusted pension of £3k per annum?It also offers a transfer out value of £156k which appears very high?
    £156K is 30X current value of future pension which is not particularly generous. Bearing in mind your level of caution in my mind it would be foolish to think of trying to take the money.


    I have no end game.
    I just want to be efficient.
    I own a house.
    I have no debt.
    I have other cash isa's.
    I have many index linked savings (NSI) I can fall back on if needed.
    I live very conservatively, and have no interest in spending or buying anything at the moment.
    I can still save and live happily on my £11kish income.
    When you retire you will have SP of about £8.5K and a DB pension of say £3.5K at current prices which should be more than enough to provide you with your £11K income. What are your pension savings for? Your lack of an end game is a serious omission. Given what you say you are likely to die leaving a large sum of money. Is that the end game, do you have a beneficiary in mind? It doesnt sound like an efficient use of your money.


    Note - figures corrected.by edit.
    Last edited by Linton; 20-10-2019 at 12:31 PM.
    • 6022tivo
    • By 6022tivo 20th Oct 19, 12:30 PM
    • 609 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    6022tivo
    When you retire you will have SP of about £8.5K and a DB pension of £5K at current prices which should be more than enough to provide you with your £11K income. What are your pension savings for? Your lack of an end game is a serious omission. Given what you say you are likely to die leaving a large sum of money. Is that the end game, do you have a beneficiary in mind? It doesnt sound like an efficient use of your money.
    Originally posted by Linton
    How can I define an end game, the end could be tomorrow? I genuinely don't have one.
    Some of the cash isa / index linked things will help my Son buy a house, I'm thinking 100k of it to help him on the ladder that will be pretty soon.
    He will be my beneficiary, him and his children.
    I will have to look into inheritance tax, I believe my allowance in my situation (Some unused from my late spouse) is around £550k, then I think there are new rules about leaving my house to my children which will help.
    Not sure how pension funds are subject to inheritance tax.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 20th Oct 19, 12:30 PM
    • 16,204 Posts
    • 19,441 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    First important point is I don't like to gamble, I don't want to risk too much for reward. May not make much sense to you guys, but it's a personal thing.
    So HIGH risk stock market heavy investments I'm not keen on.
    The thing is, risk changes depending upon timescale. Lets say 100% general global investments (nothing selected by a Woodford or a Train or a Smith) . Very high risk over a day or a year. Much less risk over 5 years almost none over 10 and over 20 years less risk than putting in what you might think is "safe" investments that coudl get eaten by inflation..
    The Generic Fund is... Aviva Av MyM My Future Growth
    Risk 4?
    The annual charge is 0.35%.
    I can switch around and move funds around to hundreds (No proper understanding of this)
    I pay 75%ish of my salary in through salary sacrifice, my company pay 10% in, they also pay their saving of NI which is very kind of them (As not required apparently).
    I have been told (Not sure if true) my maximum pension pot is limited to £1m? I will never make that value.

    I think you are saving around £38k a year into your pension then, overall.If you get say 5% a year growth (which is only 1% above what you can get from a dividend fund so nothing wild) , and increase your savings by 2% a year with inflation, over 20 years that would be £1.7M aprox in 20 years and you'd hit a million in just 15 years.


    I have a DB old pension of which the details are.
    Started in 1998, left the company in 2010, pensionable service 9yr 2m, changed from full time to part time somewhere during that.
    The Plan is contracted-out of the State Second Pension (S2P):
    Plan increases by 5% or RPI per year.
    Pensionable Remuneration used in Calculation £21k Per Annum
    Your benefits become payable from xx/xx/2039
    Total Pension at leaving £3k Per Annum
    This never appears to change everytime I log in and check??
    However when I go to the projection page, I can select 65 as a retirement age and it says - Gross Retirement Pension £5k Per Annum
    or £19k tax free cash and a adjusted pension of £3k per annum?It also offers a transfer out value of £156k which appears very high?

    I have no end game. <--------------- Not even when you wish to retire?
    I just want to be efficient.
    I own a house.
    I have no debt.
    I have other cash isa's.
    I have many index linked savings (NSI) I can fall back on if needed. Is that many in the context ofa years expenditure or 20?
    I live very conservatively, and have no interest in spending or buying anything at the moment.
    I can still save and live happily on my £11kish income.
    Originally posted by 6022tivo

    So, as above, you would definitely seem to be in "danger" of hitting the LTA, though whether that stupid limit is still there in 20 years time, who knows. Hopefully not.


    You are squirreling away a lot of money but with no clear end point in goal, there may be better ways of doing it. If you decide you wish to retire say 10 years earlier than you can get your money out of a a pension, putting less into a pension and more elsewhere might be a good plan.


    I think you need much more than a one hour chat over coffee.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • Simby
    • By Simby 20th Oct 19, 12:32 PM
    • 193 Posts
    • 176 Thanks
    Simby
    It wont change. It is simply an historical statement of the position when you left the scheme.
    This is the number that matters.
    £156K is 30X current value of future pension which is not particularly generous. Bearing in mind your level of caution in my mind it would be foolish to think of trying to take the money.


    When you retire you will have SP of about £8.5K and a DB pension of £5K at current prices which should be more than enough to provide you with your £11K income. What are your pension savings for? Your lack of an end game is a serious omission. Given what you say you are likely to die leaving a large sum of money. Is that the end game, do you have a beneficiary in mind? It doesnt sound like an efficient use of your money.
    Originally posted by Linton
    I wonder how unusual the no end game part is, it could be said also have no end game other then to have 40x living in a pension ( I have a DC) and at least 700k in investments outside a pension... I own my house.

    I have no financial end game other then to be safe from homelessness and to be able to fund myself and my care.

    I also suspect I am not using my finances efficiently but for me being financially secure lets me sleep at night.
    • 6022tivo
    • By 6022tivo 20th Oct 19, 12:37 PM
    • 609 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    6022tivo
    So, as above, you would definitely seem to be in "danger" of hitting the LTA, though whether that stupid limit is still there in 20 years time, who knows. Hopefully not.


    You are squirreling away a lot of money but with no clear end point in goal, there may be better ways of doing it. If you decide you wish to retire say 10 years earlier than you can get your money out of a a pension, putting less into a pension and more elsewhere might be a good plan.


    I think you need much more than a one hour chat over coffee.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    My pension payments are a little less than £38k, I think the 75% is after the LEL. I've only been doing this the last couple of years. I don't think I will still be in this job to get near the LTA.
    No end game retirement age. I fear it a little as I will be pretty bored. My current job is less than 30 hours a week, and not stressful. I'd do it for something to do until I couldn't. Be that 55 or 75?


    As I understand it, if I lost my job I can take some of this pension back (25% is it? Tax free at the age of 55). I could then live on that for a bit if I needed to.
    I honestly don't know what the future has in scope for me. Maybe a small business to keep me occupied?
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 20th Oct 19, 12:39 PM
    • 16,204 Posts
    • 19,441 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    I wonder how unusual the no end game part is, it could be said also have no end game other then to have 40x living in a pension ( I have a DC) and at least 700k in investments outside a pension... I own my house.

    I have no financial end game other then to be safe from homelessness and to be able to fund myself and my care.

    I also suspect I am not using my finances efficiently but for me being financially secure lets me sleep at night.
    Originally posted by Simby

    Do you have a target date when you will retire, stop earning, and start spending your pension? And how much income you'd need then ?

    In my mind, that would be your end game.
    The alternative is you intend to work until you are too ill to, or drop dead.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • Simby
    • By Simby 20th Oct 19, 12:43 PM
    • 193 Posts
    • 176 Thanks
    Simby
    Do you have a target date when you will retire, stop earning, and start spending your pension? And how much income you'd need then ?

    In my mind, that would be your end game.
    The alternative is you intend to work until you are too ill to, or drop dead.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    I have calculated pension fund needs to be 40 times living expenses ( or 25 depending on who’s advice your follow) plus 700k in liquid investments outside a pension.

    Once I get there I will retire projections say age 57 or thereabouts ...so yes you are right I guess that is the end game financial freedom .
    • Linton
    • By Linton 20th Oct 19, 12:45 PM
    • 11,371 Posts
    • 11,791 Thanks
    Linton
    How can I define an end game, the end could be tomorrow? I genuinely don't have one.
    Originally posted by 6022tivo

    You could die tomorrow but unless you are seriously ill I believe the chances are higher that you will win a sizeable prize on the lottery - perhaps you should buy a ticket. Life expectancy is around 86 and you have a 50% chance of living longer. A sensible possible end game would be to decide on an early retirement date and use your excess money to finance the gap until you receive your pensions.

    Some of the cash isa / index linked things will help my Son buy a house, I'm thinking 100k of it to help him on the ladder that will be pretty soon.
    He will be my beneficiary, him and his children.
    I will have to look into inheritance tax, I believe my allowance in my situation (Some unused from my late spouse) is around £550k, then I think there are new rules about leaving my house to my children which will help.
    Not sure how pension funds are subject to inheritance tax.

    Money left in your pension fund on your death goes to your nominated beneficiary outside your estate, there is no IHT.


    You could plan to leave everything to your son, but assuming you are of average life expectancy that may not be for another 40 years or more (assumng your pension in 2039 is when you are 65). In this case your son will be on his way to retirement himself. Perhaps a more efficient use of your money would be to give your excess income to your son now rather than leave it until he presumably has his life well sorted out.
    • Albermarle
    • By Albermarle 20th Oct 19, 12:56 PM
    • 1,727 Posts
    • 1,110 Thanks
    Albermarle
    As I understand it, if I lost my job I can take some of this pension back (25% is it? Tax free at the age of 55)
    You have made a few comments ( like the above in bold ) that seem to show your understanding of pensions/financial products could be better. In this case a one off consultation with an IFA , maybe costing a £1000?( rather than £100) , could be money well spent.
    • 6022tivo
    • By 6022tivo 20th Oct 19, 1:02 PM
    • 609 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    6022tivo

    Money left in your pension fund on your death goes to your nominated beneficiary outside your estate, there is no IHT.


    You could plan to leave everything to your son, but assuming you are of average life expectancy that may not be for another 40 years or more (assumng your pension in 2039 is when you are 65). In this case your son will be on his way to retirement himself. Perhaps a more efficient use of your money would be to give your excess income to your son now rather than leave it until he presumably has his life well sorted out.
    Originally posted by Linton
    Good news about the IHT.
    I do plan to give him 50% of his first house purchase as a lump sum (He doesn't know that yet).
    He's got a good money head on his shoulders which is a good thing, and not spoilt financially in any way by me at the moment..
    • 6022tivo
    • By 6022tivo 20th Oct 19, 1:46 PM
    • 609 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    6022tivo
    Genuinly thanks, and keep it coming.
    I have learnt/confirmed a few new things today.


    That I may live to a longer age than I thought.
    My Pension pot can be left to beneficiaries without it forming part of my Inheritance Tax Limit.
    My DB Pension is a lot more clearer.


    Have more things entering into my mind.
    If I give my son a lump sum towards a house deposit/purchase.
    How does that work for gifting and IHT?
    • 6022tivo
    • By 6022tivo 20th Oct 19, 1:47 PM
    • 609 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    6022tivo
    You have made a few comments ( like the above in bold ) that seem to show your understanding of pensions/financial products could be better. In this case a one off consultation with an IFA , maybe costing a £1000?( rather than £100) , could be money well spent.
    Originally posted by Albermarle
    You say could be better, which is not really a help. It was a question that required confirmation?
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 20th Oct 19, 2:08 PM
    • 9,490 Posts
    • 17,276 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    If I give my son a lump sum towards a house deposit/purchase.
    How does that work for gifting
    Originally posted by 6022tivo
    If you gift your son money, it's a gift.
    and IHT?
    Assuming you are giving it as a one off out of assets - rather than as part of an ongoing pattern of giving money out of your spare income - it is counted as a 'potentially exempt transfer' for IHT. This means it only escapes IHT if you survive for another 7 years. Otherwise it would be added back into your estate as if you had not gifted it and still had the money yourself.

    There can be more to it than that, and the first £3k of gifts you make in any year can be ignored for IHT - but with the amount of money involved (likely to be more than £3k for a house deposit, but less than the price of a house), that seems to be the most important bit.
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 20-10-2019 at 2:11 PM.
    • enthusiasticsaver
    • By enthusiasticsaver 20th Oct 19, 9:49 PM
    • 9,393 Posts
    • 21,774 Thanks
    enthusiasticsaver
    I don't want a proper job, I'm happy with where my things are. It was more a confirming process, especially over my pension funding and making sure I'm doing it the most efficient way.
    Originally posted by 6022tivo
    I am not quite sure why you even want to see an IFA if you are quite happy with where everything is? An IFA has to go fully into your current situation and what your aims and needs are and attitude to risk before he can advise and will certainly not be able to confirm over a quick chat whether you are making best use of your capital and income and if you will reach your financial objectives when you need to. That will require more than a quick chat and certainly cost more than £100. You do not seem to be particularly well informed when it comes to investing and if you are ploughing £38k into your pension then you need to know where that is being invested. I would also think you are in danger of hitting the LTA and if you are only using 25% of your salary you can probably retire a lot earlier than you think.

    You seem to be more worried about how you will occupy yourself in retirement rather than the financial aspect. Maybe time to explore life outside of work like getting a new interest or volunteering. Do you not travel or have hobbies?
    Early retired in December 2017

    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Mortgages and Endowments, Banking and Budgeting boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Joe9090
    • By Joe9090 21st Oct 19, 6:00 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Joe9090
    If you gift your son money, it's a gift.

    Assuming you are giving it as a one off out of assets - rather than as part of an ongoing pattern of giving money out of your spare income - it is counted as a 'potentially exempt transfer' for IHT. This means it only escapes IHT if you survive for another 7 years. Otherwise it would be added back into your estate as if you had not gifted it and still had the money yourself.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    Could you please expand on that a little. I thought you could give as much as you like,whenever you like,and providing either partner survives for more than 7 years no IHT would be payable.
    I had a look here https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax/gifts and I am still unclear about your rider
    'rather than as part of an ongoing pattern of giving money out of your spare income'
    • Linton
    • By Linton 21st Oct 19, 7:13 AM
    • 11,371 Posts
    • 11,791 Thanks
    Linton
    Could you please expand on that a little. I thought you could give as much as you like,whenever you like,and providing either partner survives for more than 7 years no IHT would be payable.
    Originally posted by Joe9090
    You can give as much as you like but if you actually made the gift yourself then all of the gift could lead to your estate paying the corresponding IHT if you died within 7 years. To split the gift between spouses would require that each demonstrably gifted half the money.
    I had a look here https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax/gifts and I am still unclear about your rider
    'rather than as part of an ongoing pattern of giving money out of your spare income'
    If your income is in excess of your total expenditure including gifts over 2-3 tax years then those gifts will be disregarded for IHT purposes. The gifts need to be part of a regular pattern, not an isolated one-off payment. If you want your executors to make use of this you will need to keep very good records of gifts, income, and expenditure.
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