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  • krazykizza
    Shocked
    I have seen a lot on this forum about raising the cost of petrol. I quite frankly am disgusted at those people. I am an 19 year old Apprentice, I have to drive 80 miles a day to Peterborough so that I can gain qualifications and experience and do good for the country. I already spend a great chunk of my wages on fuel to get to work, and with their being no viable train or bus link to Peterborough from my town that only leaves driving as an option.

    I find it hard to understand that people on this forum do not take into account peoples financial situation, particularly 31March comment outraged me the most. Why should anyone feel they have to move because of the cost of transport? I still live with my family, and going by his theory of what we should all do I'd have to get a small apartment which at my young age I don't want to do yet. Population sizes of cities would rise dramatically, London is already overcrowded!! Many other cities are booming in size and public services like the NHS and the education system particularly wouldn't be able to cope with the kind of agenda 31March is suggesting.

    If petrol doesn't come down soon, people will start having to look for alternatives to their employment which in the long run will mean less going into the Governments coffers and skilled trades becoming extinct.

    My advice to a lot of people on this thread is think before you post, as if you put into practice what you suggest it could do a lot of harm to the economy and peoples living standards.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 11th Mar 11, 7:27 AM
    • 10,956 Posts
    • 8,964 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    Out of interest, how does the fuel economy of small moped/motorbike compare to that of a small car? Many decades ago, young people with little money got around on two wheels.
  • ForumName
    The government gets 40 billion a year in tax from fuel.

    Only one third of this (about 13 billion) goes on the road network.

    The other 27 billion, along with the 9 billion from cigarette tax goes to prop up our out of control benefit system.

    The government has to get this money from somewhere so if they didnt get it from fuel and cigarettes, where do you suggest they get it from??????
  • zen navigator
    Well today 305 people have voted that it should be 2. So we can assume:

    The 305 people who use this site have some kind of mental health issue or have more money that sense or work for the exchequer.

    Watching a Alan Partridge last week and on one of his visits to his friend at the petrol station, I was reminded it was @ 80p. HAPPY DAYS.
  • ForumName
    Out of interest, how does the fuel economy of small moped/motorbike compare to that of a small car? Many decades ago, young people with little money got around on two wheels.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    My moped does around 120 to the gallon.

    It was just above empty last week so I filled it up and it cost 5.68 to fill to the brim.
    • jackieb
    • By jackieb 11th Mar 11, 7:46 AM
    • 26,981 Posts
    • 78,788 Thanks
    jackieb
    I voted for 2k as that was the biggest number there. Even though we have two cars, we use them for only a few k miles a year, mainly because I use a bicycle for 99% of my trips.

    Most car trips could be done in <20 mins by bicycle, and a large percentage in <20 mins even on foot, yet many people still automatically pick up the car keys as they leave the house. Madness.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    2k!

    There's a bit of 'i'm alright Jack' there.
    • denerobt
    • By denerobt 11th Mar 11, 8:25 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    denerobt
    Why assume WE should pay it in other ways
    The statement "Yet remember IF PETROL TAX WAS CUT OTHER TAXES WOULD RISE shifting the burden from motorists to others" gives us some insight into how we have come to the point where we assume taxing us is the only answer.

    I have not heard at all at looking at a new system for weapons procurement which would save us billions, nor a single line mentioned anywhere regarding the exhorbitant costs of our MEP's? Why do we automatically assume we should be liable?

    How about reducing petrol tax and instead put road duty on each litre, that way no one can avoid paying it - you fill your car you pay your duty, and those who use the roads more would pay more.

    Rob, community nurse in rural Wales.
    • denerobt
    • By denerobt 11th Mar 11, 8:41 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    denerobt
    Why assume WE should pay it in other ways
    I also forgot to say, why not have a very small levy on every stock / share transaction. why not make it .025% per transaction. firstly, there must be millions of transactions daily - not just in London, secondly, the amounts being traded back and forth would soon add up to a hefty bit I'm sure. Perhaps someone with some knowledge on how much we trade just via the London Stock Exchange could give some info on this.

    I'm sure if the British governemnt brought this in, that other countries would see the benefits, at least then the traders would have a level playing field and not leave Uk staocks for other ones.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 11th Mar 11, 8:46 AM
    • 10,956 Posts
    • 8,964 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    There's a bit of 'i'm alright Jack' there.
    Originally posted by jackieb
    There's also a fair bit of it as I cycle past mile after mile of stationary traffic, engines pumping out fumes, and drivers grinding their teeth.

    On the other hand, on those very rare occasions where I do need to fill up with fuel, it is a bit of a shock to see 130 come up on the pump. I take this as an incentive to drive a lot less, and not to press the pedal as hard. Others take it as an excuse to have a good moan.

    Remember folks, even at >>$100 per barrel, oil is currently cheap. We're not covering the replacement cost of it, nor figuring in the cost of the overseas wars we need to wage to keep it flowing.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 11th Mar 11, 8:49 AM
    • 10,956 Posts
    • 8,964 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    I also forgot to say, why not have a very small levy on every stock / share transaction. why not make it .025% per transaction.
    Originally posted by denerobt
    It's called Stamp Duty Reserve Tax and it's currently at 0.5% for most share transactions in the UK.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamp_duty_in_the_United_Kingdom#Stamp_duty_reserv e_tax

    The last para of that section is interesting. "A unique feature of SDRT, compared to other purely domestic taxes in the United Kingdom, is that more than 40% of the annual intake is collected from outside the UK, thus creating an annual inflow of approx. 1.5 billion pounds from foreign investors to the UK government."
  • sharrison01
    I also forgot to say, why not have a very small levy on every stock / share transaction. why not make it .025% per transaction. firstly, there must be millions of transactions daily - not just in London, secondly, the amounts being traded back and forth would soon add up to a hefty bit I'm sure. Perhaps someone with some knowledge on how much we trade just via the London Stock Exchange could give some info on this.

    I'm sure if the British governemnt brought this in, that other countries would see the benefits, at least then the traders would have a level playing field and not leave Uk staocks for other ones.
    Originally posted by denerobt
    Why would this be a fair tax? Of course the financial sector is an easy target but it is also our biggest source of income as a country and is an industry that is more mobile than most and more global than most. Taxing one sector to pay for others is not a fair way of doing things - if there is a real problem with fuel prices then surely energy companies would be a better target, especially when you look at the huge sums they are making and more importantly paying people as bonuses.

    The financial sector obviously needs reforming because it cannot be allowed to use the government as their go to if things go wrong. Once the right measures have been put in place then it should not be obliged to pay any extra taxes than any other industry, otherwise in a few years there will be the same problem that we now have with fuel prices in that the unfair tax has pushed prices too high. With the financial sector though it would affect mortgages, loans, pensions, business development and pretty much anything else you can think of. It is a short sighted measure that will generate some income now at the expense of the future economy...
    • KierNet
    • By KierNet 11th Mar 11, 1:32 PM
    • 2,563 Posts
    • 3,204 Thanks
    KierNet
    Out of interest, how does the fuel economy of small moped/motorbike compare to that of a small car? Many decades ago, young people with little money got around on two wheels.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    Mopeds can easily get around 100mpg. My old car (Fiat Punto, 1.2) could get 40mpg on a good day.

    It doesn't really bother me the price of fuel, there are very few people who need to have a car. Just because you need one to get to work isn't a reason, get a job closer to home, leave early and take public transport.

    Amazes me people moaning about the price of fuel at work, then I see they've got a 4x4. Have to have a little laugh about it.

    We're still as busy at work (petrol station) at 1.30.9 for unleaded and 1.33.9 for diesel as we where when we where 0.99.9 for both. If anything we are busier.

    Guess this is a good time to get the car I want as everyone wants to save money on fuel though!
    • denerobt
    • By denerobt 11th Mar 11, 1:36 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    denerobt
    Thanks sharrison1, you raise some good points. I am aware of how important business is and the amounts it generates, but also, of how much it costs us . Government procurement contracts to the private sector are huge - we pay for that.

    We hear often of all the jobs being created when a Tesco or equivilant store opens. What you don't hear about is that the hours are only part time for the majority and so it is the tax payer that has to subsidise the wages and housing benefits etc.

    Would there be a risk in making the extra levy on shares higher for a brief time?

    You said "It is a short sighted measure that will generate some income now at the expense of the future economy", then what is the fuel tax if not short sighted? Higher food costs, higher heating oil costs, the price of every goods and services rising to cover transport costs, our haulier industry falling under

    You mentioned pensions too, where is our protection still? how come in Denmark they can have a pension system that delivers more per pound in funds than we are allowed here? how come they have protection against unfair fund charges and bung backs and we don't? Maybe this is the expense of our longer term economy. We are always asked to pay, why not stop and look at other avenues before raising taxes again and again.
  • icklepeach
    Most car trips could be done in <20 mins by bicycle, and a large percentage in <20 mins even on foot, yet many people still automatically pick up the car keys as they leave the house. Madness.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    ARGH this sort of sweeping statement does my head in

    My hubby cycles to and from work - he does around 200 miles a week. He can do this because he has a supportive employer who provides showers in the work place and doesn't have to leave his office for meetings.
    In my previous job I often had to leave the office for meetings and to organise events. This isn't something I could have done on public transport as my work place was very rural (1 bus an hour) so despite living less than 7 miles from my office driving was the only option.
    In order to start and finish work at the appropriate time I dropped my daughter off at school on the way to work - car based school run - CRIME OF THE CENTURY, so shoot me for it.

    Things have changed now, I have a second child. We are very very busy people, we walk often to places but I can't carry a weekly (or even half weekly) shop home the 2 miles from the nearest supermarket, nor can I get my daughter to orchestra, or can I afford the luxury of taking an extra 30, 40 or 50 minutes on each journey that I use the car for in order to enjoy the luxury of getting soaked through, rained on, blown sideways by the weather or suburnt ( as if!)

    Unless you can show some serious evidence (rural, urban, suburban, motorway all included please) for MOST car journeys being short enough for other modes of transport (oh, and please include ways of taking 2 small kids with you all the time too...) then please avoid making sweeping statements.

    I think petrol should be around 1 a litre - 160% tax is bonkers! I wouldn't drive more than I do now if it went back to 2009 prices. Oh, and when is the HMRC milage rate going to change to reflect this mammoth price?!
    • trotter09
    • By trotter09 11th Mar 11, 2:44 PM
    • 912 Posts
    • 2,028 Thanks
    trotter09
    Less Traffic?
    Is it my imagination or is there less traffic on the roads than usual? If so, and if this is because petrol has gone up, then let's have even more expensive petrol please.
  • icklepeach
    Is it my imagination or is there less traffic on the roads than usual? If so, and if this is because petrol has gone up, then let's have even more expensive petrol please.
    Originally posted by trotter09
    Could be the petrol prices - could also be that hundreds of thousands of people have been made redundant as a result of the current economic decline?
  • DansMum
    My old 600cc could squeeze 86mpg and cost about 18 to fill up from empty..

    My current one costs about 20 to fill up and does about 55mpg. 'Greener' than the car, causes less damage to the roads, gets me to work quicker and I dont pay to park, 60 a year road tax, 120 a year insurance....

    However, the old Jalopy does 30mpg costs today 105 to fill up (which is a sixth of its value ) BUT its not practical for me to have just the bike.... Shopping (where do I put it) Snow etc....

    I run my own business where I will probably have to put prices up to refelect the petrol prices. On top of the price increase for the increase in VAT this year already.... We were just coming good after 2 really quiet years as well....

    I vote 1 litre
    MFW 2011 No. 161 946.54/2000 Target
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    • denerobt
    • By denerobt 11th Mar 11, 2:57 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    denerobt
    [QUOTE=icklepeach;41905292]ARGH this sort of sweeping statement does my head in

    Absolutely agree ! I live in a village in Mid Wales. Now, before everyone goes on and says about living closer to towns or city, would you like another few million people coming near you, sending house prices soaring? We have very little in the way of buses. There is no bus service in my village or the surrounding 4 villages near by. I would love to reduce my petrol costs but even if I car share I cannot then find transport to see my patients.

    I would be happy to debate this and to be proven wrong by anyone in person - you just get to my door using public transport and make it 9am in the morning. Good luck getting home too.
  • jamesn77qs
    Cars Have a Massive cost for society
    Apart from more than 2000 road deaths a year and a much larger number of serious and life devastating injuries, motoring has a massive cost for the nation and the NHS.

    The cost of roads and other infrastructure is immense.
    Rail companies have to pay for use of the railways, what better way to charge motorists to use roads than a fuel tax?
    • gravitytolls
    • By gravitytolls 11th Mar 11, 4:32 PM
    • 12,997 Posts
    • 23,207 Thanks
    gravitytolls
    The green agenda makes me angry. Higher taxation doesn't stop people from driving, people still have to get to jobs. It's an unprogressive tax hurting the poor more.

    And where does the money go?! The bus costs a fortune around Norwich, it's 2.20 for a single to the city. If there were 3 of us, we could get a taxi cheaper!

    I agree with the % idea, make it a 50% tax on the price of petrol and put every single penny into transport, dualling carriageways, bus lanes, hi-speed rail links etc
    Originally posted by Zyyb
    Mmm, and outside Norwich, public transport is equally expensive and inadequate, some villages see a bus once a week, I kid ye not.

    If we're pushed out of the cardue to rising costs, we'll still be stiffed by the bus company, as their costs will rise too. Subsidised my arsicle!
    I ave a dodgy H, so sometimes I will sound dead common, on occasion dead stupid and rarely, pig ignorant. Sometimes I may be these things, but I will always blame it on my dodgy H.

    Sorry, I'm a bit of a grumble weed today, no offence intended ... well it might be, but I'll be sorry.
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