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  • FIRST POST
    • Hellohoney
    • By Hellohoney 31st Aug 19, 11:31 AM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Hellohoney
    ATM didn’t dispense money and bank won’t return money either
    • #1
    • 31st Aug 19, 11:31 AM
    ATM didn’t dispense money and bank won’t return money either 31st Aug 19 at 11:31 AM
    Hello.
    I’m new here so I apologise if this isn’t the right category but I hope someone can help me.
    2 weeks ago my husband used his HSBC bank card at the atm however the atm didn’t dispense any money. He then tried a different machine and it worked. However, on checking his online banking he saw that the money had been debited from his account.
    He called his back straight away and they said that they would investigate and it would take up to 28 working days. Last week, they put the money back into his account however yesterday they randomly they reversed it again? My husband has spoken to them again and all they have said is that they are still investigating and they cannot tell him why they first deposited the money and then reversed it? It’s all very strange and he cannot get a proper answer from anyone.
    Has anyone been through this and can anyone advise us on what to do next? It’s very frustrating as it’s coming up to three weeks now and it seems the bank don’t really want to help.
    Thank you.
Page 1
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 31st Aug 19, 11:55 AM
    • 1,880 Posts
    • 1,397 Thanks
    18cc
    • #2
    • 31st Aug 19, 11:55 AM
    • #2
    • 31st Aug 19, 11:55 AM
    Annoying I know, but i would wait the specified 28 days and if not resolved call them and ask to make a formal complaint
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 31st Aug 19, 1:30 PM
    • 2,096 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    • #3
    • 31st Aug 19, 1:30 PM
    • #3
    • 31st Aug 19, 1:30 PM
    So, just to clarify things 100%. There are 2 ATM withdrawals showing on the account and HSBC credited and then redebited the first of the two.

    If this is correct, then your husband is in the same position as countless others who claim to have experienced an ATM mis-dispense over the years. They do happen and the bank will investigate. There is no point telling us about the 'random' redebiting of the alleged mis-dispense because no one here can tell you for sure why that happened - if it did. The obvious thing would be for your husband to ask HSBC to re-credit the amount pending the result of the investigation - did he not do this?

    HSBC will check the ATM log to see whether it 'balances' at the end of the day. If it does, there was no mis-dispense and your husband will probably have no joy. If the logs show an imbalance between the dispensed amounts and the amount that should be left in the machine then your husband will probably get the amount re-credited. End of.

    Sometimes people forget to take the cash when it is dispensed and walk away only to later realise that they didn't get anything. If the cash is not taken within a few seconds, it will be 'sucked' back into the ATM and the transaction will be reversed. If someone in the queue behind is dishonest and takes the cash quickly, it will show as having been correctly dispensed and only CCTV would evidence this. If that does happen, it still can't be proven that the person taking the cash wasn't in cahoots with the 'genuine' card user.

    So, this happened two weeks ago but somehow it is coming up to three weeks since it happened (?) but you have been advised to allow four weeks for the investigation to finish. That's all you can do.
    • Melted Diamond
    • By Melted Diamond 31st Aug 19, 1:38 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Melted Diamond
    • #4
    • 31st Aug 19, 1:38 PM
    • #4
    • 31st Aug 19, 1:38 PM
    I'm with NatWest, however when I withdrew Ł100 one day and it only gave me Ł10, they were very quick to re-credit me within only two days, plus after the 28 days, I had no issues as the OP stated they had above either.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 31st Aug 19, 1:53 PM
    • 2,096 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    • #5
    • 31st Aug 19, 1:53 PM
    • #5
    • 31st Aug 19, 1:53 PM
    I'm with NatWest, however when I withdrew Ł100 one day and it only gave me Ł10, they were very quick to re-credit me within only two days, plus after the 28 days, I had no issues as the OP stated they had above either.
    Originally posted by Melted Diamond

    Thanks for that. Interesting that you and Hellohoney should join the forum on the same day within a couple of hours of each other!
    Last edited by Terry Towelling; 31-08-2019 at 8:25 PM. Reason: typo
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 31st Aug 19, 2:02 PM
    • 6,814 Posts
    • 5,824 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    • #6
    • 31st Aug 19, 2:02 PM
    • #6
    • 31st Aug 19, 2:02 PM
    Hi,


    if you think that's interesting read his other post.


    Read
    Y'all take care now.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 31st Aug 19, 2:14 PM
    • 5,079 Posts
    • 3,320 Thanks
    Robin9
    • #7
    • 31st Aug 19, 2:14 PM
    • #7
    • 31st Aug 19, 2:14 PM
    Hi,


    if you think that's interesting read his other post.


    Read
    Originally posted by frugalmacdugal

    The one about the suitcase containing Ł680,000 that burst into flames ....................

    Has MSE deleted it ?
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 31st Aug 19, 2:20 PM
    • 6,814 Posts
    • 5,824 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    • #8
    • 31st Aug 19, 2:20 PM
    • #8
    • 31st Aug 19, 2:20 PM
    Hi,


    aye, that's the one, seems to be removed now, wonder if he will get his money back from Santander or have to go to Ombudsman?
    Y'all take care now.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 31st Aug 19, 4:50 PM
    • 2,096 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    • #9
    • 31st Aug 19, 4:50 PM
    • #9
    • 31st Aug 19, 4:50 PM
    I wish people would stop deleting the more outlandish and amusing threads before we've had the chance to read them! Looking at Melted Diamond's profile, they have one thread to their name (which doesn't exist) so I am assuming it was from them.
    • Hellohoney
    • By Hellohoney 5th Sep 19, 11:43 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Hellohoney
    Thank you for the replies (even the ridiculous ones). So this morning the bank have contacted my husband to say the following - “Forwarded from HSBC:
    We reviewed the cash withdrawal you asked about. We didn't find any errors, so we'll remove the refund from your account ending in **** in the next 10 days”.
    Can someone please advise me on what to do next? Funnily enough they’ve already removed the refund.
    No money was dispensed, my husband waited for a few mins. Can he ask them to review CCTV? I’m not really sure where we go from here now.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 5th Sep 19, 1:08 PM
    • 2,096 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    You can ask. Good luck.
    • JamesA999
    • By JamesA999 5th Sep 19, 1:16 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    JamesA999
    What to do is make a GDPR Article 15 Request of your bank and ask for a copy of the cash machine internal audit paper roll.

    That will show what the cash machine really did and your bank can't get around it. It what NatWest would have done with the person who requested Ł100 and got Ł10.

    Which bank is it? Was it one of their cash machines?

    Regards

    James
    • JamesA999
    • By JamesA999 5th Sep 19, 1:17 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    JamesA999
    Yes, you can ask for all CCTV evidence to. Give them your photographs and they must supply it by law.

    Best of luck.

    James
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 5th Sep 19, 1:33 PM
    • 11,671 Posts
    • 14,472 Thanks
    eskbanker
    While we all have rights to access our personal data held by any organisations, I doubt that an ATM audit log would be considered personal data for these purposes and so I can't imagine a bank disclosing it, especially when they'll cite security and confidentiality as (legitimate) reasons not to.

    And rather than referring to GDPR (the overarching EU regulations), it's usual to cite the Data Protection Act when submitting a Subject Access Request to a UK-based company, which would normally be directed towards the organisation's Data Protection Officer (or equivalent) rather than pointlessly routing it to their CEO....

    https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-of-access/
    • JamesA999
    • By JamesA999 5th Sep 19, 2:04 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    JamesA999
    John Flint or the current CEO of HSBC Mr Flint's email address still works is going to go to the CEO of the bank. The bank whoever in that bank gets the email will send it on to the correct department and you will here from them.

    If you like write to Mr Flint's email address asking for the email address of all internal departments pursuant to the E-commerce Directive on Electronic Communications when you will be given a long list including the email address of their data protection officer.

    Why are you protecting a banks CEO stopping his secretary sending on emails Mr Dexter? If everyone followed your advice.

    Regards

    James
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 5th Sep 19, 2:04 PM
    • 11,671 Posts
    • 14,472 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Eskbanker is not correct here address your email also to [Information Commissioner] if your bank do not give you the data they are the data "controller" of for you as the data subject. You don't want nor will be given anyone elses transactions details.

    It is the GDPR you use.

    Not Eskbanker made no comments on the CCTV.

    Does he have an agenda to propagate here?

    Just make sure you involve the ICO. They are the law here.
    Originally posted by JamesA999
    I'm not planning on getting bogged down in a silly squabble with you on someone else's thread, I was simply observing that the DPA is the UK's legislative implementation of GDPR, but that's largely a technicality as they mostly cover the same ground.

    The individual has the right to personal data, which could potentially include a very specific extract of an audit log but not the whole thing (as implied), and could also include CCTV, again if access can be made available without breaching the rights of others.

    The prescribed process for accessing personal data is to contact an organisation's nominated Data Protection Officer. Obviously anyone minded to do so can fire off emails to all and sundry but there's no need to, and unlikely to be any value in doing so. There is certainly no need to contact the head of the ICO when routinely requesting personal data from an organisation!
    Last edited by eskbanker; 05-09-2019 at 6:46 PM. Reason: Removed name of individual, for DPA compliance ;)
    • JamesA999
    • By JamesA999 5th Sep 19, 2:11 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    JamesA999
    Eskbanker,

    I think you owe hellohoney an apology and as you know so much from your post above help in resolving the issue after you got in the way of the ends of justice being met.

    Cc'd Crown Prosecution Service

    Regards.

    James
    • Flobberchops
    • By Flobberchops 5th Sep 19, 2:15 PM
    • 1,215 Posts
    • 1,122 Thanks
    Flobberchops
    If you're not happy with the bank's decision go ahead and complain - you may in fact get goodwill compensation even if they don't agree with your version of events.



    There are certain circumstances that make the bank not liable for refunding disputed ATM withdrawals, for example if they believe the person withdrawing was not the cardholder, or if they think you may have walked away from the ATM before noticing your mistake. I'm not aware of any legal obligation to share or even review CCTV footage, usually the ATM audit along with a physical check of the balance is enough for them to come to a decision.
    I work for a UK bank, but any comments made on this forum are solely my personal opinion. Caveat Emptor!
    • Gary_Dexter
    • By Gary_Dexter 5th Sep 19, 2:16 PM
    • 6,925 Posts
    • 4,608 Thanks
    Gary_Dexter
    Eskbanker,

    I think you owe hellohoney an apology and as you know so much from your post above help in resolving the issue after you got in the way of the ends of justice being met.

    Cc'd Crown Prosecution Service

    Regards.

    James
    Originally posted by JamesA999
    Seriously?
    What is wrong with some people...

    Cuckoo....
    • societys child
    • By societys child 5th Sep 19, 2:25 PM
    • 6,448 Posts
    • 7,631 Thanks
    societys child

    Cc'd Crown Prosecution Service

    Regards.

    James
    Originally posted by JamesA999
    Eh?

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