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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 15th Jul 13, 12:24 PM
    • 2,324Posts
    • 971Thanks
    Former MSE Helen
    MSE News: Benefits cap comes into force
    • #1
    • 15th Jul 13, 12:24 PM
    MSE News: Benefits cap comes into force 15th Jul 13 at 12:24 PM
    "A cap limiting the amount of benefits households can receive each week, has come into force today in parts of the UK..."

    Read the full story:

    Benefits cap comes into force



    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply. If you arenít sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.

Page 1
    • Pincher
    • By Pincher 15th Jul 13, 1:07 PM
    • 6,516 Posts
    • 2,491 Thanks
    Pincher
    • #2
    • 15th Jul 13, 1:07 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Jul 13, 1:07 PM
    So couples have to get divorced, and split the children to form two households.

    £350 x 2 = £700 a week as separate people.

    £700 - £500 = £200 a week better off.
    • delain
    • By delain 15th Jul 13, 1:10 PM
    • 7,494 Posts
    • 16,773 Thanks
    delain
    • #3
    • 15th Jul 13, 1:10 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Jul 13, 1:10 PM
    I thought DT was the place to discuss benefit policy? Breaking your own rules there MSE!

    Mum of several with a twisted sense of humour and a laundry obsession
  • jacques chirac
    • #4
    • 15th Jul 13, 1:25 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Jul 13, 1:25 PM
    So couples have to get divorced, and split the children to form two households.

    £350 x 2 = £700 a week as separate people.

    £700 - £500 = £200 a week better off.
    Originally posted by Pincher
    Running two households costs far more than one. Rent alone will eat up the additional £200.
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 15th Jul 13, 1:25 PM
    • 9,273 Posts
    • 9,438 Thanks
    rogerblack
    • #5
    • 15th Jul 13, 1:25 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Jul 13, 1:25 PM
    To clarify
    However, you're unaffected if you're any of the following:
    • Eligible for one of the excluded disability benefits.
    • getting working tax credit
    People who are on ESA - but not in the support group - are affected, if they do not also receive DLA/PIP.
    So, if you are on ESA, in the work-related group, and you may be affected, but have not tried to claim PIP - consider it.

    Plus - you just have to be entitled to working tax credit to be exempt - not to claim it.
    FAQ from the DWP on the cap is here:
    http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/benefit-cap-faqs.pdf


    More information about PIP - https://www.gov.uk/pip/overview


    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3783983/Benefit%20Limits%20and%20Housing%20Affordability%2 0for%20Private%20Tenants.pdf is a detailed paper, going into the effects per area.

    The DWP estimate that 54% of the 56,000 affected households in the HB related cap will be private
    tenants.
    They also estimate that 34% of households affected receive jobseekers allowance,
    25% of households are in receipt of ESAand 39% of households are in receipt of Income Support
    This cap bites only really on areas with high housing cost.
    The 'headline grabbing' propaganda about people with large numbers of children is basically that. Few people are affected solely due to that.
    Though in high housing cost areas of the country, even people with one child can be affected.
    Last edited by rogerblack; 15-07-2013 at 1:33 PM.
    • jobdone1
    • By jobdone1 15th Jul 13, 2:04 PM
    • 723 Posts
    • 540 Thanks
    jobdone1
    • #6
    • 15th Jul 13, 2:04 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Jul 13, 2:04 PM
    The point is if a living wage was enforced and not the min wage then you would not need benefit top ups. And as for people getting employment it is not that easy. Letting big organisations to cream millions in profits and not pay more the the min wage puts a strain on the public purse.
  • jacques chirac
    • #7
    • 15th Jul 13, 2:09 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Jul 13, 2:09 PM
    The point is if a living wage was enforced and not the min wage then you would not need benefit top ups. And as for people getting employment it is not that easy. Letting big organisations to cream millions in profits and not pay more the the min wage puts a strain on the public purse.
    Originally posted by jobdone1
    If a living wage was enforced it would have an inflationary effect, leading to a rise in the living wage, and so on - it is vicious circle, it solves nothing.
    • jobdone1
    • By jobdone1 15th Jul 13, 3:04 PM
    • 723 Posts
    • 540 Thanks
    jobdone1
    • #8
    • 15th Jul 13, 3:04 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Jul 13, 3:04 PM
    If a living wage was enforced it would have an inflationary effect, leading to a rise in the living wage, and so on - it is vicious circle, it solves nothing.
    Originally posted by jacques chirac
    Inflation. Ah yes that little joke. Based on buying cameras and things that are mainly not bought on a daily basis. Look at air fares that had an effect on inflation most min wage working people unable to travel by car to work let alone go on holiday. An extra couple of pounds an hour makes very little difference to inflation in my view but makes a huge difference to the working class.
    • satan666wayne
    • By satan666wayne 15th Jul 13, 9:19 PM
    • 925 Posts
    • 500 Thanks
    satan666wayne
    • #9
    • 15th Jul 13, 9:19 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Jul 13, 9:19 PM
    Are they taking the P? I work 40 hours a week and get £250 and pay tax and insurance on that.
    Ps. If I put how I really feel I will get a ban from the site.
    Last edited by satan666wayne; 15-07-2013 at 9:21 PM.
    • woodbine
    • By woodbine 15th Jul 13, 9:45 PM
    • 18,323 Posts
    • 24,707 Thanks
    woodbine
    I thought DT was the place to discuss benefit policy? Breaking your own rules there MSE!
    Originally posted by delain
    as they often do
    • poppy10
    • By poppy10 15th Jul 13, 10:33 PM
    • 6,220 Posts
    • 7,546 Thanks
    poppy10
    I thought DT was the place to discuss benefit policy? Breaking your own rules there MSE!
    Originally posted by delain
    The DT forum is hidden to non-logged in users. So if they put this discussion in there then anyone who clicked the link from the newsletter would just hit a login screen.

    There are many more people subscribed to the MSE newsletter than are registered in the forums. All links from MSE news always go to one of the publicly accessible subforums which can be browsed without logging in, even if they wouldn't normally belong there
    • woodbine
    • By woodbine 15th Jul 13, 11:06 PM
    • 18,323 Posts
    • 24,707 Thanks
    woodbine
    The DT forum is hidden to non-logged in users. So if they put this discussion in there then anyone who clicked the link from the newsletter would just hit a login screen.

    There are many more people subscribed to the MSE newsletter than are registered in the forums. All links from MSE news always go to one of the publicly accessible subforums which can be browsed without logging in, even if they wouldn't normally belong there
    Originally posted by poppy10
    but if we the members do this our post get moved...simple point
  • hanlou007
    Now all they need to do is half these amounts and we might be getting somewhere.......fed up of hearing about the children who will be pushed in poverty blah blah blah !! If half the parents stopped all their luxurys (fags/booze/IPhones/Sky TV) etc etc. then they'd have a lot more disposable income (sorry disposable benefits).....
  • clemmatis
    Are they taking the P? I work 40 hours a week and get £250 and pay tax and insurance on that.
    Ps. If I put how I really feel I will get a ban from the site.
    Originally posted by satan666wayne
    £350 and £500 are maximum amounts, including child benefit and housing benefit. Hence the word cap.
    • paddedjohn
    • By paddedjohn 16th Jul 13, 8:42 AM
    • 7,258 Posts
    • 7,904 Thanks
    paddedjohn
    Inflation. Ah yes that little joke. Based on buying cameras and things that are mainly not bought on a daily basis. Look at air fares that had an effect on inflation most min wage working people unable to travel by car to work let alone go on holiday. An extra couple of pounds an hour makes very little difference to inflation in my view but makes a huge difference to the working class.
    Originally posted by jobdone1
    Not really thought it through have you. Raising the minimum wage would increase the cost of everything and wipe out any benefit of the increase. If you were to increase the wage of supermarket workers by a couple of pounds an hour where do you think the money will come from to pay for it? shopping bills will increase. Raise the wage of airline staff by a couple of quid an hour and holiday costs will increase, raise the wage of teachers, nurses, policemen, firemen etc by a couple of quid an hour and taxes will have to rise to pay for it. It's a never ending cycle.
    Be Alert..........Britain needs lerts.
    • jobdone1
    • By jobdone1 16th Jul 13, 1:33 PM
    • 723 Posts
    • 540 Thanks
    jobdone1
    Not really thought it through have you. Raising the minimum wage would increase the cost of everything and wipe out any benefit of the increase. If you were to increase the wage of supermarket workers by a couple of pounds an hour where do you think the money will come from to pay for it? shopping bills will increase. Raise the wage of airline staff by a couple of quid an hour and holiday costs will increase, raise the wage of teachers, nurses, policemen, firemen etc by a couple of quid an hour and taxes will have to rise to pay for it. It's a never ending cycle.
    Originally posted by paddedjohn
    I think things through all the time, I'm afraid greed has caused this problem of the workers not getting a fair living wage. Take private rents for example what are ordinary people to do if the big guns won't pay a fair wage and the government won't support answer that. Simple
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 16th Jul 13, 2:15 PM
    • 5,540 Posts
    • 5,660 Thanks
    poppasmurf_bewdley
    I for one hope that the Benefit Cap will be affecting the wife and brood of the recently departed for Jordan Abu Hamza, who left them here to be provided for by the British Taxpayer.

    I have heard that they may all be returning to Jordan as well, so maybe the Benefit Cap is working already to the advantage of the taxpayer.
    "There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe a 'Princess Coronation' locomotive in full cry. We shall never see their like again". O S Nock
    • paddedjohn
    • By paddedjohn 16th Jul 13, 3:33 PM
    • 7,258 Posts
    • 7,904 Thanks
    paddedjohn
    I think things through all the time, I'm afraid greed has caused this problem of the workers not getting a fair living wage. Take private rents for example what are ordinary people to do if the big guns won't pay a fair wage and the government won't support answer that. Simple
    Originally posted by jobdone1
    If you can't afford the rent then find somewhere else to live, the landlord will soon get the message and lower it.
    If we were all paid a minimum wage of £10k a week you can be sure that your food bill will be £4k and your rent would be £4k a week too, its all relevant in the end.
    Be Alert..........Britain needs lerts.
    • jobdone1
    • By jobdone1 16th Jul 13, 4:18 PM
    • 723 Posts
    • 540 Thanks
    jobdone1
    If you can't afford the rent then find somewhere else to live, the landlord will soon get the message and lower it.
    If we were all paid a minimum wage of £10k a week you can be sure that your food bill will be £4k and your rent would be £4k a week too, its all relevant in the end.
    Originally posted by paddedjohn
    I'm not speaking for my self with regards to rent but i am in support of people that are being forced to struggle or move. Its sounds simple but in many cases this is not.
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 16th Jul 13, 4:23 PM
    • 9,273 Posts
    • 9,438 Thanks
    rogerblack
    I'm not speaking for my self with regards to rent but i am in support of people that are being forced to struggle or move. Its sounds simple but in many cases this is not.
    Originally posted by jobdone1
    In principle, yes, but this raises other problems.
    The DWP did some research into how people actually get jobs in the end - not how they're compelled try to - and found that friends and family were a large factor.
    If you've now moved out of the area, suddenly all your support is gone, and you become less likely to gain employment.

    I note also that some disabled people - those not in the support group of ESA - who have lifelong conditions, and are never expected to be able to work by the DWPs own assessment are also hit, if they have high housing cost.
    This may cause real issues as they can't get support from neighbours they know, or family, if they moved.
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