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    • MSE Archna
    • By MSE Archna 6th Oct 06, 7:00 PM
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    MSE Archna
    Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 06, 7:00 PM
    Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area 6th Oct 06 at 7:00 PM
    This thread is here to discuss the content of the article on Council Tax Cashback: reduce your band and save £1000s.

    However if you have already followed the system, please use report them in the Council tax rebanding successes discussion.

    Note from Martin: Thank you to all the contributers to the initial thread, which provided the genisis for the article. Much appreciated.


    Last edited by MSE Archna; 10-06-2010 at 4:39 PM.
    Report inappropriate posts: forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com




Page 251
    • sirmixalot
    • By sirmixalot 24th Oct 17, 2:08 PM
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    sirmixalot
    Hello, the newspaper advert is from 7th April 1991. The smaller property would been built pre-1991 (probably by quite some time) and is located at the other end of the village. It's the same sort of house, detached, same number of bedrooms, same number of bathrooms, same number of reception rooms, just as I say 10 square metres smaller (at approx 175 square metres). Funnily enough it was sold nine months after I purchased mine for £75,000 more than what I paid for mine.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 24th Oct 17, 9:15 PM
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    lincroft1710
    So why did a 10 sq m smaller house sell for £75K more than yours, 9 months later? What are the month/year and sale prices?
    • sirmixalot
    • By sirmixalot 24th Oct 17, 10:39 PM
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    sirmixalot
    Hello, my property is a new build which I brought for 368k in November 2005. The older property has a much larger garden and went for 440K In December 2006. Sorry it's a bit over a year as I reserved it while it was being built (I was thinking of the moving in date). I'm not to fussed about the price difference. - I am glad it's more obviously - but I'm more interested in the fact that it's a very good match for the number of rooms and size ( 10 square metre over two floors so around five square metres per floor) and it's in the lower band.
    • Cheryla
    • By Cheryla 24th Oct 17, 10:43 PM
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    Cheryla
    refused appeal
    I have recently asked for my council tax banding to be looked at. I am the only one that is an F (all the others are Es with a few Ds in my post code. All the properties are identical or very similar to mine. I have evidence that my property sold for under £120k in 1993 along with a property 2 doors away (identical to mine) having there banding dropped from F to E in 1993. The VOA officer hastened my banding is correct given house prices were on the decline form 1989 so mine would have been worth over £120k in 1991 for which he has no sale to support. I therefore asked for a case number so could appeal to which he replied I could not appeal as I had paid tax on the property for over 6 months. I am going to complain to the VOA and write to my MP but wondered if anyone could tell me is this correct regarding the appeal as I am aware of the people who have appealed that have been in their properties over 6 months. (i have lived in mine since 2006) Thank you
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 25th Oct 17, 1:49 PM
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    lincroft1710
    Hello, my property is a new build which I brought for 368k in November 2005. The older property has a much larger garden and went for 440K In December 2006. Sorry it's a bit over a year as I reserved it while it was being built (I was thinking of the moving in date). I'm not to fussed about the price difference. - I am glad it's more obviously - but I'm more interested in the fact that it's a very good match for the number of rooms and size ( 10 square metre over two floors so around five square metres per floor) and it's in the lower band.
    Originally posted by sirmixalot
    Prices were on the increase in that period of time. But what is concerning me more is the fact your band was increased over 10 years after you bought the house. Bands aren't normally increased unless there is very good (possibly exceptionally good) evidence for such an increase. Did the VOA say why they had increased the band.

    Finally, 10 sq m difference can easily bring 2 houses into 2 different bands, e.g 155 sq m house sells for £155,000 in Apr 1991 = Band F, 165 sq m sells for £165,000 also Apr 1991 = Band G. I should also point out that VOA attribute very little value to large gardens.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 25th Oct 17, 2:05 PM
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    lincroft1710
    I have recently asked for my council tax banding to be looked at. I am the only one that is an F (all the others are Es with a few Ds in my post code. All the properties are identical or very similar to mine. I have evidence that my property sold for under £120k in 1993 along with a property 2 doors away (identical to mine) having there banding dropped from F to E in 1993. The VOA officer hastened my banding is correct given house prices were on the decline form 1989 so mine would have been worth over £120k in 1991 for which he has no sale to support. I therefore asked for a case number so could appeal to which he replied I could not appeal as I had paid tax on the property for over 6 months. I am going to complain to the VOA and write to my MP but wondered if anyone could tell me is this correct regarding the appeal as I am aware of the people who have appealed that have been in their properties over 6 months. (i have lived in mine since 2006) Thank you
    Originally posted by Cheryla
    VOA are correct that you are well out of time to appeal, it is pointless writing to the VOA or your MP to complain about this. In the area I worked prices dropped by about 20% between 1991 and 1993, so if yours had sold for £100,000 in 1993, it would still show a value in excess of £120,000 in 1991.

    I would suggest you ask VOA why they have reduced the identical house and why they will not reduce yours similarly. However I suspect the answer you will probably get is that the other house was reduced in error. The answer to your next question is that bands reduced in error are sometimes not increased back up to their original band.
    • sirmixalot
    • By sirmixalot 26th Oct 17, 11:20 AM
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    sirmixalot
    Prices were on the increase in that period of time. But what is concerning me more is the fact your band was increased over 10 years after you bought the house. Bands aren't normally increased unless there is very good (possibly exceptionally good) evidence for such an increase. Did the VOA say why they had increased the band.

    Finally, 10 sq m difference can easily bring 2 houses into 2 different bands, e.g 155 sq m house sells for £155,000 in Apr 1991 = Band F, 165 sq m sells for £165,000 also Apr 1991 = Band G. I should also point out that VOA attribute very little value to large gardens.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710
    Hello, the reason for the re-banding is strange as some properties have been re-banded up, some larger have been re-banded down. I can't say too much as I suspect that will identify the development and feelings around here are running quite high sadly.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 26th Oct 17, 1:57 PM
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    lincroft1710
    Hello, the reason for the re-banding is strange as some properties have been re-banded up, some larger have been re-banded down. I can't say too much as I suspect that will identify the development and feelings around here are running quite high sadly.
    Originally posted by sirmixalot
    Sounds as if someone was either using a builder's siteplan which had been superseded or had wrongly identified the different house types
    • sirmixalot
    • By sirmixalot 26th Oct 17, 8:59 PM
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    sirmixalot
    Not quite - it's a case of larger, more expensive properties going down a band and smaller properties going up a band if that makes sense!!!
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 27th Oct 17, 2:00 PM
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    lincroft1710
    I understand what you are saying, but there has to be good reason for the VOA to have done this which is what you need to ask them.
    • Cheryla
    • By Cheryla 31st Oct 17, 1:23 PM
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    Cheryla
    appeal refused
    Thank you for your response, My MP is being very supportive and I am still pursuing this as I feel its just so morally wrong given all the compelling evidence I have to support my case. I will update you if I have any success
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 31st Oct 17, 2:12 PM
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    lincroft1710
    MPs will be "supportive", they want your vote at the next election.

    Your MP will write a letter to the VOA and will receive one of 2 replies which can be paraphrased either as

    1. The matter was under consideration and it had been decided to reduce the band

    or more usually

    2. The time limit in law for an appeal is well past. However I have again reviewed the band, but remain of the opinion that it is correct

    If you think I am being cynical, I have actually replied to MP's letters when I was in the VOA. They don't know CT legislation or its machinations so when you reply quoting said laws, they don't pursue the matter.

    Did you ask the VOA why they won't reduce your band in line with the other house?
    Last edited by lincroft1710; 31-10-2017 at 2:16 PM.
    • Cheryla
    • By Cheryla 14th Nov 17, 8:16 AM
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    Cheryla
    appeal refused
    I have asked them to look at the evidence that resulting in them dropping the banding in 1993 of the identical property to mine (2 doors away) as this would be relevant to my case. That was some two weeks ago and I'm still awaiting a response from the VOA and my MP. Interestingly my Mp sent a copy of the letter he received from the VOA that stated property indexes could not be used as evidence as they were too generalised and not region specific......that however is the only evidence my local VOA officer is using to support his case. Needless to say I have pointed this out to them in the email i sent 2 weeks ago. Lets see what happens
    • sirmixalot
    • By sirmixalot 27th Nov 17, 3:11 PM
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    sirmixalot
    I understand what you are saying, but there has to be good reason for the VOA to have done this which is what you need to ask them.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710

    Would it be okay to send you a PM with the details on as things have changed over the last week and I would certainly appreciate your thoughts? Thank you.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 27th Nov 17, 4:55 PM
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    lincroft1710
    Unless it includes personal or confidential details I would prefer if you posted on this thread
    • sirmixalot
    • By sirmixalot 8th Dec 17, 11:56 AM
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    sirmixalot
    Unless it includes personal or confidential details I would prefer if you posted on this thread
    Originally posted by lincroft1710

    Okay, I think it should be okay.


    I live on a development that was started in 2004 and finished in 2006 which is when I brought my four bedroom house. The development was done by a major builder so included house types that were built not only on this site but all over the country.


    In December of 2016 we received a letter about notice of rebanding. My property went up a band to the second highest and other properties which were larger went down to the third highest. These properties were five bedroom properties but were build over three floors. At the time we realised that not only had they missed some properties in our road, but other roads on the development weren't touched. The VOA corrected the ones on our road, but left the other streets on the development alone.


    We appealed as did several of our neighbours and mentioned the inconsistency again amongst our reasons, but was told that this would be addressed.


    Roll forward to October and one of our neighbours then went to the Appeal tribunal - now as far as I can tell their case was solely on the fact that only our road had been rebanded and the other houses were bigger were now lower.


    This had a result of changing the other houses on the development within a week of the hearing.


    I was due to have a hearing a few weeks ago, but this got cancelled at 4pm day before at the request of the clerk as they felt the case due to be heard before mine was likely to overrun and wouldn't leave sufficient time.


    My first point of concern is that we have been paying the higher band for nearly a year now compared to a similar property around the corner - this isn't a reason to restore my band back to it's original I realise, but surely it demonstrates that we have been treated unfairly in paying a higher rate of council tax for almost a year? Given that they have been told numerous times of the inconsistency and only addressed it after the hearing - grounds for complaint surely?


    It terms of the house style influencing the banding I don't believe that the first hearing made mention of the fact that if you were to ignore the top floor of those larger properties the remaining two floors would be very, very close in size to the four bedroom house styles. Literally I could convert my loft and my property would be the same.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 8th Dec 17, 2:48 PM
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    lincroft1710
    Roll forward to October and one of our neighbours then went to the Appeal tribunal - now as far as I can tell their case was solely on the fact that only our road had been rebanded and the other houses were bigger were now lower.

    This had a result of changing the other houses on the development within a week of the hearing.

    My first point of concern is that we have been paying the higher band for nearly a year now compared to a similar property around the corner - this isn't a reason to restore my band back to it's original I realise, but surely it demonstrates that we have been treated unfairly in paying a higher rate of council tax for almost a year? Given that they have been told numerous times of the inconsistency and only addressed it after the hearing - grounds for complaint surely?
    Originally posted by sirmixalot
    What was the result of your neighbour's appeal?

    A 3 storey house will be worth less than a 2 storey house of the same type and size. Is your house detached and are the 3 storey houses detached or are they semis or terraced?

    Although the VOA were tardy in increasing the bands of houses in the next road, complaining about it will achieve nothing other than perhaps a placatory letter or even just excuses as to why it wasn't done sooner. You haven't actually lost anything by their inaction.
    • sirmixalot
    • By sirmixalot 12th Dec 17, 9:59 PM
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    sirmixalot
    What was the result of your neighbour's appeal?

    A 3 storey house will be worth less than a 2 storey house of the same type and size. Is your house detached and are the 3 storey houses detached or are they semis or terraced?

    Although the VOA were tardy in increasing the bands of houses in the next road, complaining about it will achieve nothing other than perhaps a placatory letter or even just excuses as to why it wasn't done sooner. You haven't actually lost anything by their inaction.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710

    Once again thank you for your reply.


    They lost their appeal - but from what I understand they did not present any evidence to show the property was in the wrong band and relied on the fact that the banding was different to the same house type elsewhere on the development. I think the listing officer apologized and said that the other similar properties to which they were referring would be rebanded, which they were the following week after the hearing.


    There are four bedroom terraced houses on the development that are built over three floors and I can understand how these might be worth less than a four bedroom semi or detached two floor home, if they had a similar amount of space.


    However, the ones that I am comparing against are detached, imposing, double-fronted properties with additional bedrooms or reception rooms. The internal floor area is around 25% more or 40 square metres. If you could slice the top floor off and put a roof back down, you would still have a property that was very, very close to mine in total floor area.


    Re the delay in increasing bands - whatever the result of my hearing, surely I have been at a disadvantage in having to pay the higher band of council tax for almost a year, when the same house round the corner hasn't? Since VOA are an offshoot of HMRC isn't there something about fairness in their charter - especially when they were told multiple times of the inconsistency?
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 13th Dec 17, 2:19 PM
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    lincroft1710
    Re the delay in increasing bands - whatever the result of my hearing, surely I have been at a disadvantage in having to pay the higher band of council tax for almost a year, when the same house round the corner hasn't? Since VOA are an offshoot of HMRC isn't there something about fairness in their charter - especially when they were told multiple times of the inconsistency?
    Originally posted by sirmixalot
    VOA argument would be that you are not at a disadvantage as the band has been incorrect since day one and you have been underpaying from that day until your home was rebanded. If one was to have "fairness" then you and all your neighbours in increased band houses would have to pay the council the underpayment going back all those years. But fortunately for you and your neighbours CT legislation does not permit this.

    Your band was incorrect, the VOA corrected it as is their duty. As I said in my previous post, complaining about the delay in increasing the other bands will achieve absolutely nothing. In fact it may divert attention from more pertinent aspects of your appeal.

    Your neighbours losing the appeal could be bad news as the VOA now have evidence of the new band being confirmed. Regarding the larger houses, you must urge the VOA to explain the discrepancy.
    • Shirazee
    • By Shirazee 20th Dec 17, 7:27 PM
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    Shirazee
    Advice needed
    Just wondering if anyone could offer us any help or advice. My mother-in-law died earlier this year and it was only as a result of this that we discovered that her council tax banding is G, she never discussed anything like this with the family, with only occasional comments that her banding was high. On checking we found that only 2 other houses on her street were G, both much bigger & on checking further we discovered that originally 9 properties were rated G, 6 of these has since been reduced to F (which would seem to indicate that the original bands were inaccurate, several other properties have also had their bands reduced.)

    We have contacted VOA to query, our main problem is that the property was built by my husband's grandfather back in 1953 so has never been sold, meaning that we have no sales price evidence. It is also an individually designed house, originally a bungalow, but extended in 1977 by my late father-in-law (they were builders) which means we have no identical or very similar properties to compare with. The road comprises of many different types of older properties; bungalows, terraces, semis as well as detached houses, this is not a modern development of similar properties.

    It seems unfair that as we cannot supply evidence, as there isn't any, that they are not prepared to look at our query. The plan is for my husband & I to buy out his sisters' shares & move into the property once ours is sold & we could well do without the extra expense of this high banding.

    Do we have any hope?
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