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VCS (IPC) PCN & Company vehicle

2

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  • emilycharlotte
    emilycharlotte Posts: 58
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    edited 16 December 2016 at 12:02AM
    Thanks. I got a little confused with the wording I think!
    I will get her to write the following:

    Dear Sirs

    Our apologies for the omission of the hirer's name on the returned PCN. Full hirer details are as follows:
    ..................
    We have now formally discharged any liability under the POFA 2012 Schedule 4. Therefore, please ensure that any future notice/ correspondence is sent to the hirer's address.

    Yours faithfully
  • Just wanted to double check before I reply to the company (who have re-directed the letter to us now) that the below template is the one we need to send back to appeal for company vehicle and IPC.
    I couldn't find Edna Basher's templates for IPC- I could only find this one so I assume this is the one? Thanks a million :)


    Dear {name of IPC member - only IPC members for this version!!!}

    Re PCN number:

    I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified. I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

    1. Who is the party that contracted with your company?
    2. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    3. Please provide photos of the signs that you say were on site and which you contend formed a contract with the driver.
    4. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.
    5. Please provide proof that the timing of any camera used was synchronised with all other cameras and/or systems & machines.

    Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the IPC Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, for example) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle, whether you have already obtained it or not. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days.

    Yours faithfully,

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,733
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    From the NEWBIES thread section at the foot of the first post, about lease/hire cars:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69859059#post69859059

    Needs adapting (e.g. parking company name). And remove the sentence about POPLA that starts 'alternatively'.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • I have received the below letter through the post. Could you let me know what I should do next? Do I reply?
    P.S. I will be moving house very soon so I am more than happy for them to send their imaginary bailiffs round to my old address, however, I do worry that a CCJ may be registered in my name if I don’t give them my new address. That could affect my ability to get credit/finance in the future. Should I give them my new address?

    We acknowledge receipt of your appeal (representations) received on in relation to the above PCN. You have raised a number of points in your appeal which are not appropriate for us to deal with at this stage. Please note that, as members of the IPC it is necessary for us to evidence to the IPC that we have relevant authority to undertake enforcement activity at the sit concerned and that our signs in situ are compliant in setting out the relevant terms and conditions of use.
    We will defend the points you have raised as appropriate should the matter proceed to the IAS and/or Court. We have therefore dealt with the pertinent points in your appeal below.
    In your particular case we are not seeking to rely on POFA 2012
    While we understand your concern at receiving a notice, it is entirely the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that they adhere to the terms and conditions of use of the roadways. Motorists are clearly advised not to park, stop or wait on double yellow lines, red routes or roadways at any time. Such actions may also pose an obstruction or danger to other road users. There are numerous warning signs in place along the private access roads.
    Review of our CCTV footage has confirmed to us that on the you stopped your vehicle in a prohibited area for an unreasonable amount of time. Whilst we appreciate the circumstances you have described however, please be advised that our signage located at the entrance/exit of the area clearly state “no stopping”. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that he/she is fully aware and compliant with the Terms and Conditions of this area.
    We must advise that Calder Park is private land and motorists are allowed to enter it provided that they agree to the Terms and Conditions of use. There are 69 signs on site: 4 entrance signs and 65 repeater signs which state “RESTRICTED ZONE” and “no stopping” and “strictly no stopping on red routes, yellow lines, roadways or bus stops”. Our site photographs confirm they can be clearly observed at the entrance and throughout the site. Furthermore, the signage in situ is reflective and positioned to face oncoming motorists and is compliant with the IPC code of practice. Text size is relative to the average approach speed of an approaching vehicle on those roads.
    Please be advised that from the 29 September 2014 the Accredited Trade Association to which vehicle control services limited belongs became the IPC. As such, VCS it is no longer required to adhere to the British Parking Association’s code of practice and as such no longer deals with POPLA. We can confirm that VCS ltd complies with IPC code of practice and offers the motorist further appeals to the IAS. We hope this clarifies our position.
    We are satisfied that the PCN has been issued correctly and your appeal (representations) is therefore rejected. We will not accept any further appeals.
    The letter then gives me the option to pay or appeal to IAS.


  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,733
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    Reply with your new address and keep proof that you sent it (to stop a default CCJ later sneaked in without you knowing).

    You can assert that you are well aware that VCS are discontinuing claims regarding alleged but badly-signed 'no stopping' areas:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/bw-legal-discontinue-liverpool-business_19.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/liverpool-business-park-motorist-wins.html

    and that you will counter-claim for data misuse, should they continue and because they have been informed of the name and address of the hirer (you) but fail to hold the keeper/hirer liable, due to their own choice not to rely upon Schedule 4 of the POFA.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Reply with your new address and keep proof that you sent it (to stop a default CCJ later sneaked in without you knowing).

    You can assert that you are well aware that VCS are discontinuing claims regarding alleged but badly-signed 'no stopping' areas:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/bw-legal-discontinue-liverpool-business_19.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/liverpool-business-park-motorist-wins.html

    and that you will counter-claim for data misuse, should they continue and because they have been informed of the name and address of the hirer (you) but fail to hold the keeper/hirer liable, due to their own choice not to rely upon Schedule 4 of the POFA.





    Should I be appealing to the IAS at this stage or should I be writing back to the VCS?
    I have compiled the below letter. Could you please check if you think the wording is ok? Thank you in advance, you have been very helpful. I am not telling them about the address at this stage as it is still a while before we move:




    Thank you for your letter dated ....................
    I am well aware that VCS are discontinuing claims regarding badly-signed ‘no stopping areas’.


    The VCS paperwork is not compliant with POFA and there is no possibility of a legal parking charge and therefore no "reasonable grounds" to pursue the keeper or driver, such a pursuit is therefore a breach of section 13(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998.
    Should VCS continue to pursue this claim, I will counterclaim for data misuse. Should a hearing be allocated by the Court, I will claim costs from VCS.
    I note your threat to use debt recovery; should any debt recovery firm contact me regarding this matter, I will claim against the debt recovery firm for data misuse.
    VCS have been informed of the name and address of the hirer, but fail to hold the keeper/hirer liable, due to VCS’s own choice not to rely upon Schedule 4 of the POFA.

    Please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge.
    Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,733
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    Perfect letter/email, except add a deadline giving them 21 days to delete your data under Section 10 of the DPA and tell them this is a formal 'objection to processing'.


    And no, absolutely NOT:
    Should I be appealing to the IAS at this stage

    Ignoring IAS stage (and why not to try it) is covered in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Hi all
    I have received a letter of claim from Bwlegal. It is the standard template letter they send out. I have come up with the following response and I would really appreciate it if someone could cast their eye over it to see if it would be ok to send:

    "Dear Sirs
    I refer to your letter of ......... where you claim not to have received a response to your letter of ......... I refer you to my emails of .............. and ................, both of which were in response to your letters of ............. and ................. I note that your letter of .............. is a template response that addresses none of the important points raised in my emails.
    I refer to the costs estimate in your letter where you detail your client’s legal costs as being £50 and a further estimated £60 if proceedings are issued. I deny any debt to yourselves or your client, VCS Ltd. The Small Claims process has been designed to make it simple for parties to put together a claim without the use of legal representation. I am therefore surprised that you suggest that these costs are recoverable in the Small Claims Court. You are clearly in breach of the principles in Chapter 11 of the Solicitors Code of Conduct and I specifically draw your attention to IB (11.7) and IB (11.8) of Solicitors Code of Conduct. If your client decides to instruct legal representation then that cost is to be met by your client and you are fully aware of that. I suggest you refer this matter back to your client if your client wishes to avoid paying your further legal costs.
    I note your comments regarding the likeliness that a County Court would come to a similar conclusion if the IAS had previously dismissed my appeal. You state that my defence would be unsuccessful. This is a clear attempt to take advantage of a third party’s lack of legal knowledge and another breach of Chapter 11 Solicitor’s Code of Conduct. In any case the judge will decide liability and it is not for you to falsely predict the outcome of a matter.!
    Furthermore, as a member of the Credit Services Association (CSA) and therefore signatory to their codes of practice, BW Legal is in breach of several of these codes. I deem your letter to be particularly deceitful and aggressive. I reserve the right to show our correspondence to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the CSA.
    I require you to stop processing my personal data in breach of the 5th and 6th Data principles as continuing to process it is not only a personal tort but may be criminal under s55 of the same Act. If you do not intend to stop processing my data, I require you to start legal proceedings. Any proceedings will be fully defended.!
    For the avoidance of doubt, I do not consent to any further processing of this data, save for you or your client confirming that the charge is cancelled.”

    Thanks for your help =)
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,733
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    Have they stated that you defence will be unsuccessful, then?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
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  • Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Have they stated that you defence will be unsuccessful, then?

    They say:
    "You should note that if your claim has already been processed through an Independent Appeal Service and an IAS has dismissed your appeal then it is likely that a County Court will come to a similar conclusion and your defence will be unsuccessful".

    I havent appealed to IAS but wanted to make the point regardless (as they have). Do you think I should change the wording on that part?

    They are giving me until 10 June before they commence legal proceedings so I would ideally like to get something back to them so they can't say I haven't been compliant.

    Thanks for your response and your help =)
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