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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Wendy
    • By Former MSE Wendy 21st Jul 09, 12:45 PM
    • 868Posts
    • 1,782Thanks
    Former MSE Wendy
    Tax Credit Briefing discussion
    • #1
    • 21st Jul 09, 12:45 PM
    Tax Credit Briefing discussion 21st Jul 09 at 12:45 PM


    This is to specifically discuss the


    ... just click 'post reply' to discuss or comment.
    Last edited by MSE Researcher; 15-06-2010 at 1:34 PM.
Page 2
  • sarahf3112
    Stopped payments
    Can anyone help me to claim back payments last October, not as a response to any information provided by me? My previous year's payments were all accurately paid, and then for no apparent reason payments were stopped last October. When I ring the helpline they say there is no reason for the stoppage, and are 'awaiting' guidance on how to restart! They were quite a significant part of our monthly income and despite numerous calls to the helpline it doesn't seem to be progressing. Any suggestions?!
  • whitevanwoman
    Can anyone help me to claim back payments last October, not as a response to any information provided by me? My previous year's payments were all accurately paid, and then for no apparent reason payments were stopped last October. When I ring the helpline they say there is no reason for the stoppage, and are 'awaiting' guidance on how to restart! They were quite a significant part of our monthly income and despite numerous calls to the helpline it doesn't seem to be progressing. Any suggestions?!
    Originally posted by sarahf3112
    Contact your MP and CAB. Submit a complaint and copy that to your MP. This is not acceptable - they should give you a clear reason why payments have been stopped and you might wish to remind your MP of Stephen Timms (Treasury Minister) offer to investigate problems on behalf of people where the problems has been due to HMRC error.
    The independent woman's checklist for success :
    1. Look like a lady, 2. Act like a man, 3. Work like a dog
    Life instructions : 1. Breathe in, 2. Breathe out, 3. Repeat ad infinitum
    2008 - 4k challenge member 063 gave up halfway thru, not sure I even earned that much, so probably achieved it :confused:
  • sarahf3112
    Thank you, I'll give it a go!!!
  • sarahf3112
    Contact your MP and CAB. Submit a complaint and copy that to your MP. This is not acceptable - they should give you a clear reason why payments have been stopped and you might wish to remind your MP of Stephen Timms (Treasury Minister) offer to investigate problems on behalf of people where the problems has been due to HMRC error.
    Originally posted by whitevanwoman

    I've done what you suggested, I've also written to the tax credits complaint manager, although I don't hold out much hope for a reply!!!
  • whitevanwoman
    Well done you! Even if you do get a reply from the TC manager, it could well be months so you need to keep hassling them - I would ring the helpline every few days and ask for an update, and ask for the number of the Tax Credit Office (TCO) to contact them and find out the reason. Although it is inconvenient, they should put you on manual payments as an emergency measure so start insisting on this.

    It does occur to me that sometimes payments can stop because HMRC have decided that they have overpaid you or there is some irregularity with your claim, however, they should certainly have informed you of the reason for this by now and it is negligent of them not to have done so. Don't panic if as a result of chasing them for payments, they suddenly do inform you that there is an overpayment, as you can dispute this and again, they should not have stopped your payments suddenly without informing you.

    For more information, do go to www.taxcc.org (Tax Credit Casualties website - a support group for people having TC problems through no fault of their own) and have a good look at their site and at their forum. It might be worth posting in the new members section of the forum asking for advice as there are some very knowledgable forum members who might be able to give you more advice.

    If you haven't heard from your MP within 2 weeks, I would telephone them and say that this is urgent - unfortunately it is a bad time of year with MPs being on their (extended) summer break but they should still be dealing with constituents problems, but you may need to give them a "push".

    Good luck and don't get discouraged by the lack of immediate response. Make sure you keep notes of all contact and copies of all correspondence and from now on copy every letter you send to your MP and send correspondence recorded delivery so that HMRC can't claim that they didn't receive it.
    The independent woman's checklist for success :
    1. Look like a lady, 2. Act like a man, 3. Work like a dog
    Life instructions : 1. Breathe in, 2. Breathe out, 3. Repeat ad infinitum
    2008 - 4k challenge member 063 gave up halfway thru, not sure I even earned that much, so probably achieved it :confused:
  • sarahf3112
    thank you, that's all really helpful. I'll let you know how I get on, but don't hold your breath!!!!!
  • sarahf3112
    Well I'm gobsmacked, but today I received a reply from my MP!!! My letter to him was dated 8th August, his reply was dated 12th August which I think is remarkable!! Anyway, he tells me he has 'immediately written to HM treasury about this issue" and will be in contact as soon as he receives a response. Almost enough to make me vote for his party (although note I'm not disclosing which party it is!!!!).
    Will keep you posted.....
  • p.s.a.
    tax credits
    i earned less 2008/09 and was award more tax credit, should this result in having to pay more council tax.
    • patrich
    • By patrich 2nd Sep 09, 9:58 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    patrich
    wtc staff don't know rules
    i was informed that a loss on my property rental had to be deducted from other income in the current year but when the relevant form & helpsheet arrived it said that the loss had to be carried forward to next year to be deducted from same source income and could not be set against other income this year. i sold one of my rental properties and informed wtc and tax office of the capital gain. wtc told me it only wanted to know how much interest i'd made on the amount while it was in my savings account and the capital gain was of no consequence to them as it's a capital gain. i now have put the money in to shares & according to wtc helpsheets it only wants to know if i get any dividends but if i sell shares i make a capital gain, some wtc staff say this is income, some wtc staff say inland revenue will say how much if any is to be declared as income. should i follow the helpsheet info or the staff of wtc that seem to be making rules up as they go along? i don't want to fall foul of the system but don't want my wtc/ftc calculated using a capital gain as income as the capital gain won't be a regular income, once the property or the shares are sold i don't have another lot to sell! answers would be greatfully received as my accountant doesn't know,ftc staff don't know so who knows?
  • tmac68
    I too had a huge overpayment, but after 3 years of fighting i've had it written off. it does take some work though, I had to get copies of all my phone calls from data protection and write several letters and make many phone calls. however in the end it was one phone call that sorted it and brought the tax credit office's mistake to light. It sometimes depends on the person you get on the phone. never give up if you really believe it is their fault and not yours I knew it wasn't my mistake but theirs, and it came down to a human error on their part, of one digit missing from the figure they put into the computer.
    • eveieve
    • By eveieve 2nd Sep 09, 10:18 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    eveieve
    Im clutching at straws here but I have exhausted myself trying to find out and the tax credit helpline is useless! Does anyone know If I would be entitled to claim child tax credit if my partner does not work (but also does not claim any benefits) and I work 22 hrs? We have a child who has just turned 1. I have read everything I can get my hands on but everything refers to partners who dont work but DO claim benefits:confused:
    Originally posted by confused owl
    My partner does not work and also does not claim benefits. I work 37.5 hours a week (although currently on Maternity leave so not actually earning money, still classed as working) and I get everything (approx 520 per month.

    I'm sure they prob have it wrong but....

    Anyway - yes it still counts if your partner earns nothing and does not claim. They base it on your total income for both of you.

    Claire x
    • KevinG
    • By KevinG 3rd Sep 09, 9:52 AM
    • 1,582 Posts
    • 4,653 Thanks
    KevinG
    i was informed that a loss on my property rental had to be deducted from other income in the current year but when the relevant form & helpsheet arrived it said that the loss had to be carried forward to next year to be deducted from same source income and could not be set against other income this year. i sold one of my rental properties and informed wtc and tax office of the capital gain. wtc told me it only wanted to know how much interest i'd made on the amount while it was in my savings account and the capital gain was of no consequence to them as it's a capital gain. i now have put the money in to shares & according to wtc helpsheets it only wants to know if i get any dividends but if i sell shares i make a capital gain, some wtc staff say this is income, some wtc staff say inland revenue will say how much if any is to be declared as income. should i follow the helpsheet info or the staff of wtc that seem to be making rules up as they go along? i don't want to fall foul of the system but don't want my wtc/ftc calculated using a capital gain as income as the capital gain won't be a regular income, once the property or the shares are sold i don't have another lot to sell! answers would be greatfully received as my accountant doesn't know,ftc staff don't know so who knows?
    Originally posted by patrich
    Capital Gain is Capital Gain, not Income. No way it can count for Tax Credit purposes. Always follow the written rules rather than what staff tell you, that way you cannot go wrong.
  • amy_uk_2k
    over payments- tax credits
    every time our circumstances change we let the tax credit office know. when we first started applying as a couple, i was a student. weve let them know when i started working, when hours changed and when salary went up. we then got a letter saying we had been overpaid and had to pay back 400. we rang immediatly to ask why we had to repay as we always let them know when our circumstances have changed. we asked why our payments were never reduced. they agreed we had told them the changes, but said we had to pay the money back. we dont earn a great deal of money and the money we do earn just baout covers the mortgage and bills and now this. reading this latest thread makes me wonder if we should be paying anything back?

    amy
  • lisae03
    We recently had quite a drop in Tax Credits when we renewed on July. I rang them earlier to query something else although our claim is a joint one the advisor was shocked to find that my other half works more than 30 hrs. In short he said he was not down as working so we have not been getitng the working element of Tax Credits. His wage of 17000 was however taken into consideration. I said where else would he get that kind of money if he does not work. I assume our money will go up but will we get back dated if we have been under paid? Its so confusing the way this system works. Any Advice would be appreciated.
  • Dundee87
    I have brought my children up alone (now aged 13 and 16). When the youngest started primary school, I started working virtually full-time. As a result, I'm not very good at household administration sometimes - especially with all these forms - there is often just too much on my plate; too much for one person to juggle.

    I've been told for several years running that I've been overpaid which I am at a loss to understand as I have always called the Tax Credits Dept to tell them of changes as they occurred (and usually been told that the change I was informing them about wouldn't affect the amount of Child Tax Credit I was getting). On each lot of correspondence, the amount they claimed I have been overpaid by is listed as well as the amount they are deducing to reclaim it from me.

    This year I did some research to find out what my actual income had been (as I had given estimated income). In each case, I had over-estimated my income which had pushed the Tax Office to claim money back from me, based on my income-estimates which were higher than my actual income for those years.

    When I called the Tax Office to point this out to them, I was told that this was my bad luck; that I had missed the deadlines and that therefore the 'case was closed'. So they are continuing to claim money back from me, when it is more likely they owe me!

    What really infuriates me is that if I had under-estimated my income (instead of over-estimating it) I would be expected to repay all the excess payment back to them. However, there seems to be no onus on them to repay me when the reverse is true - how can this be? :confused::rolleyes:

    Your comments and advice will be much appreciated.
    Originally posted by Cantala59
    Hi there,

    To start off I would like to say that I hope my reply is not too offensive, abusive or taken as the opinion of HMRC as I am speaking from my own personal experiences.

    When you are sent the Renewal Pack (known internally as the S17) you will, 99.99% of the time, receive this by the end of June. If you are employed then you must receive your P60, by law, no later than 31st May. If the company you work for does not supply you with this date then you can report them to the tax office.
    If you don't have your P60 but have worked for the same company for the whole of the previous tax year, ie this year that would be 06/04/08 - 05/04/09, then you can use your March payslip (if paid monthly) or week 52 payslip (if paid weekly) as this will more than likely have your "Total taxable pay to date" or something similar which can be used to complete the S17 as this will mirror what is in the "Total For Year" section of your P60.

    When you receive your S17 you are told that you must provide AT LEAST an estimate by 31st July (aka 1st Specified Date), if you are employed 99% of the time you should be able to provide an actual income figure as you should either have your P60 or the payslip mentioned above. If you do provide an estimate and tell on the form that it is an estimate you then get until 31st Jan (aka 2nd Specified Date) to provide the correct ACTUAL income figure.

    If you provide an income that is over-estimated, but gave it as an actual income or try to call us after the 2nd Specified date if you did say it was an estimate, then I am sorry but this is your fault, no one elses. Most (but not all) people receive there S17 around the middle of May, you then have approx 10 weeks to complete it. If you decide to estimate your income even though you have received your P60 and get it wrong then I don't see why you think that you should be awarded the underpayment after you allowed the wrong information to be held by us for so long after the deadlines set out within the Tax Credit Regulations.

    In the future before you complete your renewal, have your P60 (or payslip) to hand then you won't get the income wrong. At the end of the day we only ask you to complete the renewal once a year and all that is required to do this is your P60 and that it is, is it really that difficult?

    As you will have guessed I work for the Tax Credit helpline and I am not saying that we are perfect, far from it sometimes, but at the end of the day I get a bit annoyed when people try to not take responsibility of their own mistakes and dispute overpayments even though it was clearly their fault because of giving the wrong income and not correcting it straight away. Which we will be happy to do.

    So to end things:

    1. If you're providing an estimated income, ALWAYS over estimate it, especially for the Current Year income. When over-estimating the Current Year income you may be slightly underpaid at the start of the next tax year but you will get this back when you provide the actual income on the S17 and if you provided the over-estimate when doing the renewal (and told us it was an estimate) then once you provide the actual income (before the 2nd Specified Date) you will get paid any underpayment you are due.

    2. If you do supply an estimated income (and said it was an estimate) when completing the S17, ALWAYS call ASAP before 31st Jan to give the actual income figure or you will loose out on money you are entitled to. The quicker you tell us the actual income the quicker you will get your money.

    xx
    • Stabilo
    • By Stabilo 26th Sep 09, 10:37 PM
    • 441 Posts
    • 85 Thanks
    Stabilo
    Unclaimed childcare expenses
    If an individual has not claimed childcare costs for 08/09 but declared their final income for 08/09 can they still make a claim? The individuals didn't realise they could claim for childcare costs because the working tax credit benefit was never explained to them.
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  • LizzieS
    Personally I do find the declarations easy, but I know the same won't apply for others and declarations can innocently be made incorrectly.

    This is one complicated system - perhaps adding a local agency set up to talk people through the forms would reduce user mistakes.
  • subsoniccoyote
    If an individual has not claimed childcare costs for 08/09 but declared their final income for 08/09 can they still make a claim? The individuals didn't realise they could claim for childcare costs because the working tax credit benefit was never explained to them.
    Originally posted by Stabilo
    You should have read the guidance pack that came with the claim form, that's why it's provided. You can only backdate a change that would increase your entitlement for a maximum 3 months.

    Personally I do find the declarations easy, but I know the same won't apply for others and declarations can innocently be made incorrectly.

    This is one complicated system - perhaps adding a local agency set up to talk people through the forms would reduce user mistakes.
    Originally posted by LizzieS
    If you are having problems with the forms it is possible to call the helpline and if still having difficulties you can make an appointment with an enquiry centre.
  • subsoniccoyote
    This year I did some research to find out what my actual income had been (as I had given estimated income). In each case, I had over-estimated my income which had pushed the Tax Office to claim money back from me, based on my income-estimates which were higher than my actual income for those years.

    When I called the Tax Office to point this out to them, I was told that this was my bad luck; that I had missed the deadlines and that therefore the 'case was closed'. So they are continuing to claim money back from me, when it is more likely they owe me!

    What really infuriates me is that if I had under-estimated my income (instead of over-estimating it) I would be expected to repay all the excess payment back to them. However, there seems to be no onus on them to repay me when the reverse is true - how can this be? :confused::rolleyes:

    Your comments and advice will be much appreciated.
    Originally posted by Cantala59
    When you have declared your income you cannot change this figure after the 2nd specified date (31st January, same as self assesment) if it would increase your entitlement. The reason for this is that TCO need to finalise the previous tax year. They will only make amendments if there has been official error or if you have failed to notify them of a change which would have meant a lower entitlement.

    You must provide an actual figure or an estimate by the first specified date (31st July). If you provide an estimate or if the actual figure is incorrect you need to give the correct actual figure by the 2nd specified date.

    You have plenty of time between receiving your renewal (normally June at the latest) and the 2nd specified date so there is usally no good reason for it being late.

    If you over-estimate your income and your award is reduced because of it, you will receive any under-payment you are owed when you have completed your renewal. When you estimate your income for the current year and this figure is higher than the previous year's income you will find that your award has not reduced as it is still based on the previous year's figure as there is an income disregard of 25k.
    Last edited by subsoniccoyote; 27-09-2009 at 10:14 AM.
    • Stabilo
    • By Stabilo 27th Sep 09, 10:19 AM
    • 441 Posts
    • 85 Thanks
    Stabilo
    Back dating
    Subsoniccoyote

    On which page of the guidance notice is the 3 months backdating rule mentioned?

    Surely the July deadline declaration relates to the whole of the previous tax year which covers the period 16 to 4 months ago i.e. automatically outside the 3 month backdating rule.

    So what is the purpose of the declaration if it falls outside the backdating limit?

    If income can be declared up to Jan 31st following the tax year why not 'expenditure'?
    Before you buy Google Nest or British Gas Hive check out ESPproMon the Android and iOS Smartphone app that helps you build the same system from just 30.
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