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  • FIRST POST
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 10th Apr 19, 4:15 PM
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    Mr_Singleton
    Anyone else appalled?
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 19, 4:15 PM
    Anyone else appalled? 10th Apr 19 at 4:15 PM
    Seems that those dirty old black cabs belching out all manor of toxic fumes have been exempted from the London ULEZ by the cabbies best mate Sadiq “war on Uber” Khan.

    Says it all really.
Page 1
    • scones
    • By scones 10th Apr 19, 6:38 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    scones
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 19, 6:38 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 19, 6:38 PM
    Not really, given that they already have a pretty comprehensive strategy for getting rid of the diesel-belchers over the next few years:
    https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/emissions-standards-for-taxis

    For example, the following are already in place:
    • A ban on taxis more than 15 years old
    • Active consultation on reducing this limit to 12 years
    • No new licences issued for new diesel taxis since the end of 2017
    • Zero emissions capability required for new registrations since the end of 2017

    Plus, they're actually paying taxi owners to de-licence vehicles that are younger that 15 years but don't meet the latest standards.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 10th Apr 19, 7:56 PM
    • 1,408 Posts
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    Mr_Singleton
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 19, 7:56 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 19, 7:56 PM
    they already have a pretty comprehensive strategy for getting rid of the diesel-belchers over the next few years.
    Originally posted by scones
    “next FEW YEARS

    ..... and here’s a headline from a recent study “London black cabs up to 30 times more ‘toxic’ than cars

    Can I deduce from your apparent cavalier attitude to air pollution that you and your family don’t live in central London?

    No other vehicles have been given exemptions inc. for the police, fire brigade, ambulances etc just Mr Khan’s mates at the black cab association.

    It’s an utter disgrace.
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 10th Apr 19, 8:56 PM
    • 2,569 Posts
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    Johnmcl7
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 19, 8:56 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 19, 8:56 PM
    EU6 diesel cars may look good on paper but the reality is they aren't, VW have taken all the flack for cheating but they're not the only ones doing it and they're also far from the worst with most cars failing to meet EU6 limits in reality and some massively failing to do so:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/26/extremely-polluting-nissan-and-renault-diesel-cars-still-on-sale-data-reveals

    An EU4 taxi may look a lot worse on paper but the reality is it isn't at least until they sort out testing and actually enforce the limits for newer cars.

    In addition to that they have a strategy in place to reduce and eliminate the diesel taxis while there's going to be plenty of dirty private EU6 diesel cars that are allowed to use the ULEZ belching out their dirty fumes and won't be removed soon, I'd be a lot more worried about those. Curiously no-one seems to though.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 11th Apr 19, 9:38 AM
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    agrinnall
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 19, 9:38 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 19, 9:38 AM
    And a very similar piece that has resurfaced on the BBC website in the last few days - for anyone who has a diesel Qashqai it should make sobering reading!


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust
    • andygb
    • By andygb 11th Apr 19, 10:47 AM
    • 13,063 Posts
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    andygb
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 19, 10:47 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 19, 10:47 AM
    If Khan was really serious about air pollution and in particular, diesel pollution, then he should get rid of or tax the new London Cruise Ship Terminal, which will be responsible for more air pollution than the whole of the UK, depending on the size and number of ships at any one time.
    The World's 15 largest ships emit more polluting gases than ALL the cars in the World.


    https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2017/03/11/green-finance-for-dirty-ships
    • Andy L
    • By Andy L 11th Apr 19, 11:24 AM
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    Andy L
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 19, 11:24 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 19, 11:24 AM
    “next FEW YEARS

    ..... and here’s a headline from a recent study “[COLOR="DarkRed"]London black cabs up to 30 times more ‘toxic’ than cars
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    Its actually “polluting the streets with nitrogen oxide emissions up to 30 times the level or personal petrol cars the same age”.

    so
    1. its an apples & oranges comparison of diesel cabs vs petrol cars not diesel vs diesel
    2. No indication of if thats up to 30x polluting per day/mile/hour. Which one it is makes a significant difference
    • scones
    • By scones 11th Apr 19, 3:20 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    scones
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 19, 3:20 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 19, 3:20 PM
    No other vehicles have been given exemptions.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton

    Not true, the following are exempt:

    • Residents of Central London - until October 2021
    • Registered disabled passenger vehicles - until October 2025
    • Private hire vehicles that are wheelchair accessible - until October 2025
    • Military vehicles
    • Vehicles over 40 years old
    • Agricultural vehicles, diggers, JCBs etc.


    The main reason I don't see the exemption as an outrage is because it would be largely pointless for taxis. Experience of the Congestion Charge shows that private car drivers and business vehicles will avoid Central London or switch to public transport where they are able to do so in order to avoid paying the extra cost. That doesn't apply to taxi drivers as they have to enter Cental London to work. You could rake in extra cash by charging them, but none of them are likely to give up their livelihood or scrap their vehicle because of a £12.50 daily charge.

    Don't get me wrong - I never use taxis, have never driven a taxi and tend to think there are more efficient ways we could use roadspace and fuel to transport people. But they are a useful part of the transport network (especially for disabled people who stuggle to access the Tube) and I believe the existing plans for getting the more polluting taxis off the road will be far more effective than arbitrary charging would be.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 11th Apr 19, 3:24 PM
    • 22,822 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 19, 3:24 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 19, 3:24 PM
    I'm appalled that you'd waste our time by bringing your obvious political slant to an important issue that needs to be considered rationally.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 14th Apr 19, 7:47 AM
    • 1,408 Posts
    • 2,336 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    I'm appalled that you'd waste our time by bringing your obvious political slant to an important issue that needs to be considered rationally.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    In order to judge the validity of your opinion could you answer...

    A) roughly where in Zone 1 do you live

    B) roughly where do your children attend school in zone 1

    C) do you have any links to black cabs.

    I’ll start....

    Kensington & Chelsea, Sloane Square and NO!

    BTW.... bloody Apple autocorrect.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 14th Apr 19, 8:03 AM
    • 22,822 Posts
    • 18,839 Thanks
    agrinnall
    In order to judge the validity of your opinion could you answer...

    A) roughly where in Zone 1 do you live

    B) roughly where do your children attend school in zone 1

    C) do you have any links to black cabs.

    I’ll start....

    Kensington & Chelsea, Sloane Square and NO!

    BTW.... bloody Apple autocorrect.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton

    The answers are Nowhere, No children, No, but your view that only people who can answer the same as you doesn't mean my opinion is any less valid than yours.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 14th Apr 19, 8:27 AM
    • 1,408 Posts
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    Mr_Singleton
    EU6 diesel cars may look good on paper but the reality is they aren't
    Originally posted by Johnmcl7
    I have no idea, the point I was making is why have yet again (like with the conjestion charge*) black cabs been singled out for exclusion when say private hire cabs, Uber etc haven’t. Public service authorities have been forced to spend millions to upgrade..... no exclusion offered there.

    “Black cabs emit a staggering 60 per cent of all car NOx [nitrogen oxides] pollution in London. They make up 40 per cent of cars in the congestion zone. Yet they only carry a tiny 1.5 per cent of daily trips in London”

    Admit it... black cabs are bullies.
    Last edited by Mr_Singleton; 14-04-2019 at 8:33 AM.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 14th Apr 19, 8:35 AM
    • 1,408 Posts
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    Mr_Singleton
    The answers are Nowhere, No children, No, but your view that only people who can answer the same as you doesn't mean my opinion is any less valid than yours.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    London pollution IS KILLING PEOPLE.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 14th Apr 19, 10:55 AM
    • 7,603 Posts
    • 4,835 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    I believe the point of the exemption for taxis is that a taxi reduces the number of private cars in use in and around London. Not saying if it's good or not, just the logic. Khan at least is allocating an extra £24m on top of the existing £18m fund to help drivers get electric vehicles
    • keithdc
    • By keithdc 14th Apr 19, 1:09 PM
    • 379 Posts
    • 651 Thanks
    keithdc
    London pollution IS KILLING PEOPLE.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    Stress also kills!!
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 14th Apr 19, 5:55 PM
    • 22,822 Posts
    • 18,839 Thanks
    agrinnall
    London pollution IS KILLING PEOPLE.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton

    As is Birmingham pollution where I live.
    • TripleH
    • By TripleH 23rd Apr 19, 8:28 AM
    • 184 Posts
    • 122 Thanks
    TripleH
    To be fair to Mr Singleton, I understand the main point of his argument is that Black Cab taxis get the exemption, but Non-Black Cab taxis don't.

    So you have two sets of people ostensibly doing the same job of moving persons from point A to point B for money (this is a very simple analogy I know). One group get exemptions solely on the type of car they drive. Looking at it on this level, it does appear to be a restriction in trade with slight monopolistic connotations, as I suspect it doesn't just cover Uber drivers but other non-Black cab drivers as well.

    But, I don't know the full details and am not going to look them up.
    Wherever you go, whatever you do Richard Marx is right there waiting for you.

    Sweet dreams!
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 23rd Apr 19, 3:15 PM
    • 1,408 Posts
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    Mr_Singleton
    For me it’s the fact that black cabs are so freaking dirty cause a huge amount conjestion and the vast majority of people can’t afford them unless a tourist on a treat or business people on expenses.

    Then add the £10’s millions diverted from public transport and the sickening amount of bullying they do and yes I dont like black cabs.
    Last edited by Mr_Singleton; 23-04-2019 at 3:17 PM.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 23rd Apr 19, 3:17 PM
    • 1,408 Posts
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    Mr_Singleton
    I believe the point of the exemption for taxis
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Please don’t say ‘Taxis’ because it’s ONLY black cabs that have bullied themselves an exemption.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 23rd Apr 19, 3:21 PM
    • 1,408 Posts
    • 2,336 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    doesn't mean my opinion is any less valid than yours.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    Of course it’s less valid just like my opinion on pollution and public transport in Los Angeles is less valid than that of a local.
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