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  • FIRST POST
    • Sharlas
    • By Sharlas 8th Apr 19, 9:19 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Sharlas
    Challenging a single justice procedure notice. Technicality on the start and stop station
    • #1
    • 8th Apr 19, 9:19 PM
    Challenging a single justice procedure notice. Technicality on the start and stop station 8th Apr 19 at 9:19 PM
    Hello all.
    I'm hoping you can help in your own experiences or wisdom. I was stopped by a plain clothes ticket inspector after purchasing a ticket at the machines for my journey as the machine wasn't accepting my card at my start destination. I was going out that evening (Tuesday 18th December) and was going to get a lift or taxi home. Because I have all of 5 minutes grace most mornings to walk to work (the line is 75% delayed) I just plugged into the machine my station I started at rather than have to wait in the 8:10am queues to get them to issue a ticket from my correct start station to end station.

    He took my ticket off me, took my details and I asked if anything would come of this and he said no it's just procedure. I apologised I hadn't done it in the correct way and I really had to go or I was going to be late for work. He said I was free to go and wasn't under arrest.

    I got a letter back in January for a fixed penalty notice for this incident. I spoke to the prosecution unit who kept asking me why didn't I have a season ticket if I travel so frequently by train as I always pay my fare. At the time I worked in recruitment so sometimes I would use the travel desk, drive my own car in or get the bus depending on my circumstance that day and it didn't make financial sense to get one. Bear in mind this is a 3.30 single or 4 return journey. He said he would get the incident report and call me back. Didn't hear back so chased. Apparently they didn't attach the report so would have to wait again. Again didn't hear back. Called him once again and it had been escalated to court proceedings and he'd push it back a month but I'd have to pay 80 which I told him I simply couldn't afford right then and asked how long I would have to pay which he said all details would be in the letter.

    I lost two of my grandparents suddenly, one each side, during this time and I dropped the ball. Admittedly so.

    Now the notice they have given me my date of birth is wrong + my charge sheet my DOB is wrong (22/8). The actual statement of the ticket inspector has my DOB wrong (28/8) as should be 23/8 as I wrote down for them. And apparently I'm also 3 inches shorter in the statement as in 5ft2 as opposed to 5ft5 which isn't a particularly easy mistake in my eyes.

    Do I contest this? What legal grounds have I as they have messed up so much information in their evidence. Surely I can just claim I am not that person born on that day and show ID to prove it and it'll be thrown out?

    I never intended to evade a fare. I paid the journey I took that day but by a technicality that my ticket was from my end to start station it doesn't matter it's the same cost. The difference is 70 pence!

    Any help would be appreciated. I am seeing CAB tomorrow as they just put me onto debt management over the phone as apparently don't have one in my area but I know damn well my Mum has used them so thought I should explore all avenues.

    Thank you.
Page 1
    • Hasbeen
    • By Hasbeen 9th Apr 19, 6:53 AM
    • 1,499 Posts
    • 1,139 Thanks
    Hasbeen
    • #2
    • 9th Apr 19, 6:53 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Apr 19, 6:53 AM
    To cut a long story short. You travelled in without a ticket, then purchased a single ticket to get back?

    This is called fare evasion and you now have a penalty notice to pay.

    All else is irrelevant.

    I would advise either paying or coming to an arrangement.

    Before this does escalate to court.
    • London50
    • By London50 9th Apr 19, 7:05 AM
    • 1,681 Posts
    • 1,650 Thanks
    London50
    • #3
    • 9th Apr 19, 7:05 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Apr 19, 7:05 AM
    As above, you were caught so pay up.
    • Sharlas
    • By Sharlas 9th Apr 19, 8:54 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Sharlas
    • #4
    • 9th Apr 19, 8:54 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Apr 19, 8:54 AM
    I gave the ticket that I purchased to the ticket inspector so I wasn't able to use it. I was not intentionally avoiding a fare.
    • Hasbeen
    • By Hasbeen 9th Apr 19, 9:06 AM
    • 1,499 Posts
    • 1,139 Thanks
    Hasbeen
    • #5
    • 9th Apr 19, 9:06 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Apr 19, 9:06 AM
    I gave the ticket that I purchased to the ticket inspector so I wasn't able to use it. I was not intentionally avoiding a fare.
    Originally posted by Sharlas
    You travelled in without a ticket and only bought a single to return?

    Perhaps not intentually more like deliberately avoiding the fare.
    • stragglebod
    • By stragglebod 9th Apr 19, 5:49 PM
    • 659 Posts
    • 594 Thanks
    stragglebod
    • #6
    • 9th Apr 19, 5:49 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Apr 19, 5:49 PM
    Pay the 80 now or pay a whole lot more when you're inevitably convicted of fare evasion.
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 11th Apr 19, 8:55 AM
    • 13,144 Posts
    • 9,049 Thanks
    Voyager2002
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 19, 8:55 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 19, 8:55 AM
    Firstly, work out how to explain exactly what journeys you did and did not take, and leave out irrelevant guff like grandparents dying.


    Secondly, seek help on a specialist rail forum and/or get a free 30-minute appointment with a solicitor.

    As I understand your story (and it is not at all clear):

    You travelled from home to work and for a technical reason could not buy a ticket at your start station.

    You therefore took the first opportunity to attempt to buy a ticket: since the train was late you did not have time to queue and so used the machines.

    The machine did not sell the correct ticket for the journey that you had just taken, so you bought the nearest equivalent for the same price (from B to A instead of from A to B). Incidentally, had you bought a return ticket from the machine that would not have been valid either, since you need to use the coupons in the correct sequence.

    You returned home that day in a friend's car or some other means that did not involve the railway, as you had been planning to do.

    If that is essentially what you are saying then it sounds like a very strong defence, but you need to get advice from someone who knows the rules rather better than I do.
    • TadleyBaggie
    • By TadleyBaggie 11th Apr 19, 9:07 AM
    • 3,268 Posts
    • 2,515 Thanks
    TadleyBaggie
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 19, 9:07 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 19, 9:07 AM
    I'm used to advising on speeding matters...however if the OP has a Single Justice Procedure Notice it has moved passed the fixed penalty stage and is now with the court. With a SJPN you can plead guilty (and you will be simply sentenced), plead not guilty (and a actual court date will be issued) or request that a court hearing without making a plea. If you wish to contest the charge, then option 2 or 3 would achieve this. Be aware that with court papers, any minor error can be corrected on the day of the hearing under the "slip rule".
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