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  • FIRST POST
    • eco_warrior
    • By eco_warrior 18th May 19, 11:02 AM
    • 386Posts
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    eco_warrior
    Poor Service from Revolut and RBS
    • #1
    • 18th May 19, 11:02 AM
    Poor Service from Revolut and RBS 18th May 19 at 11:02 AM
    Been posting on here for years but this is the first time I've had issues of my own so thought I would share them with the forum.


    I've been a big fan of Revolut for a few years now and use the card on an almost daily basis. I am a Metal subscriber so I pay £12.99pm and get some additional benefits (cash back, travel instance etc).


    On Sunday 5th May I experienced issues when trying to top up my account using my RBS debit card. The following attempts were made:


    • £510 - declined
    • £10 - declined
    • £10 - declined @ reversed
    • £10 - declined @ reversed
    • £10 - declined @ reversed


    On the following Wednesday the first two payments debited my RBS account but did not credit my Revolut account, leaving me with £520 "missing".


    I contacted Revolut via their chat facility and they confirmed all 5 payments were declined. I explained I could see this but 2 had clearly been processed from RBS end. When asked if they could help they said no and that the funds were still with RBS. When I asked why 3 payments were reversed by Revolut, solving any issues, then why weren't all 5, I got no answer. I logged a complaint which was closed within 3 days with Revolut confirming they cannot help me. They waived £12.99 for me as a gesture of goodwill and apologised. I can now take this to FOS if I so wish.


    I contacted RBS on the same day I raised the complaint with Revolut, again via online chat. I was put through to an agent in their Chargebacks team who quickly grasped the situation and advised me they would need to dispute the transactions. I was told to complete an online declaration form which I duly did. The form would not allow me to send any attachments to help substantiate my claim (screenshots etc). I got an auto response advising me it would be 7-10 days before an update, which I felt was quite a long time but accepted they will be a busy department. However just 2 days later they contacted me via email asking for supporting evidence, which I duly sent back to them immediately, this was on 13/05.


    I had received no further update so contacted RBS yesterday to see if there as any progress, I was informed that my case was due to be reviewed again on 27/05 (10 days). I was told that every time new evidence is requested/submitted it resets the 7-10 day timescale, which I find incredulous.


    I know a chargeback (or 2) can be processed to help me get my money back but I was taken aback when I was told of the time I will need to wait. I asked if my case could be expedited due to the relatively high value of the transaction, after all we all have bills to pay and day to day expenses. I was told no. So I opened a complaint with RBS and I need to wait 5 days for a response from them regarding that, although im sure they have 15 days for complaints linked to a current account.


    I've never had cause to complain to any bank before, and having worked in banking for nearly 20 years I am aware of how poor service can be at times. Now I find myself with 2 complaints in a week and £520 down for what could be the best part of a full month. I also know the chargeback could be processed in 5 minutes as its my day job.


    Anyway that's my first rant for the forum! If you think I'm being a drama queen i wont take offence
Page 1
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 18th May 19, 6:46 PM
    • 22,823 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #2
    • 18th May 19, 6:46 PM
    • #2
    • 18th May 19, 6:46 PM

    Anyway that's my first rant for the forum!
    Originally posted by eco_warrior

    And it's in the wrong place, you shoud have posted in Praise, Vent and Warnings .
    • Gary_Dexter
    • By Gary_Dexter 18th May 19, 7:01 PM
    • 4,786 Posts
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    Gary_Dexter
    • #3
    • 18th May 19, 7:01 PM
    • #3
    • 18th May 19, 7:01 PM
    Have they cleared or are they showing as pending payments?
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 18th May 19, 8:02 PM
    • 1,497 Posts
    • 1,256 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    • #4
    • 18th May 19, 8:02 PM
    • #4
    • 18th May 19, 8:02 PM
    As rants go, I think you could have done much better.

    I know nothing of these new fangled things called 'Revolut' and the like but, presumably, you make a debit card transaction with Revolut and they process it much the same as any other card transaction.

    So, on the basis that RBS has cleared funds totalling £520 from your current account (they are cleared, aren't they?) then how could the funds possibly still be with RBS? It's not as if RBS sends the money when a debit card transaction is made; rather the money is effectively taken by the transaction originator (unless I have got the wrong idea about the way a Revolut top-up works).

    So, on the basis I have got the right idea about the transaction process (debateable) the money must be with Revolut but they can't find an account to apply it to because (presumably) their fund allocation methods need a home with an 'auth approval' message to match to.

    Do you know for sure that RBS issued decline responses (and why would they do that?). I have half a suspicion that RBS may have approved them but their responses were delayed and Revolut's own systems (or maybe Visa/MasterCard) 'timed out' the auth. requests and allocated the decline responses themselves. RBS's delayed approvals then came in later.

    At this point my theorising starts to struggle but I suspect the mix of delayed RBS approvals and Revolut's own 'Timed out' declines has caused their systems to fall over. Somehow they've managed to accept two of the delayed approvals from RBS and send clearing messages to take the money but neither the delayed approvals nor the clearing messages could be processed/matched to your Revolut account because of the in-house declines sitting on them.

    Now, why the above should have happened for some transactions but not others I cannot say, but doesn't it strike you as strange that Revolut should need to reverse declined auth requests? There is no need to do this - you only need to reverse approved auth requests' This is why I think something very odd has happened within Revolut's auth handling processes and that RBS actually approved all of your transaction attempts.
    • eco_warrior
    • By eco_warrior 18th May 19, 8:09 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    eco_warrior
    • #5
    • 18th May 19, 8:09 PM
    • #5
    • 18th May 19, 8:09 PM
    Have they cleared or are they showing as pending payments?
    Originally posted by Gary_Dexter
    They cleared a week last Wednesday Gary. I hadnít even noticed they were pending as I wrongly assumed they were all declined by RBS. If only...
    • eco_warrior
    • By eco_warrior 18th May 19, 8:14 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    eco_warrior
    • #6
    • 18th May 19, 8:14 PM
    • #6
    • 18th May 19, 8:14 PM
    As rants go, I think you could have done much better.

    I know nothing of these new fangled things called 'Revolut' and the like but, presumably, you make a debit card transaction with Revolut and they process it much the same as any other card transaction.

    So, on the basis that RBS has cleared funds totalling £520 from your current account (they are cleared, aren't they?) then how could the funds possibly still be with RBS? It's not as if RBS sends the money when a debit card transaction is made; rather the money is effectively taken by the transaction originator (unless I have got the wrong idea about the way a Revolut top-up works).

    So, on the basis I have got the right idea about the transaction process (debateable) the money must be with Revolut but they can't find an account to apply it to because (presumably) their fund allocation methods need a home with an 'auth approval' message to match to.

    Do you know for sure that RBS issued decline responses (and why would they do that?). I have half a suspicion that RBS may have approved them but their responses were delayed and Revolut's own systems (or maybe Visa/MasterCard) 'timed out' the auth. requests and allocated the decline responses themselves. RBS's delayed approvals then came in later.

    At this point my theorising starts to struggle but I suspect the mix of delayed RBS approvals and Revolut's own 'Timed out' declines has caused their systems to fall over. Somehow they've managed to accept two of the delayed approvals from RBS and send clearing messages to take the money but neither the delayed approvals nor the clearing messages could be processed/matched to your Revolut account because of the in-house declines sitting on them.

    Now, why the above should have happened for some transactions but not others I cannot say, but doesn't it strike you as strange that Revolut should need to reverse declined auth requests? There is no need to do this - you only need to reverse approved auth requests' This is why I think something very odd has happened within Revolut's auth handling processes and that RBS actually approved all of your transaction attempts.
    Originally posted by Terry Towelling
    Agree with all of what youíve said TT, all the transactions were authorised.

    Topping up a Revolut account is basically just a visa debit card payment that credits a pre paid card. Something has clearly went wrong at Revolutís end but they wonít admit that.

    They said there was a connectivity issue so a time out seems to be the issue.

    Regardless of the cause, both Revolut and RBS are providing a really rubbish service.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 20th May 19, 8:15 PM
    • 1,497 Posts
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    Terry Towelling
    • #7
    • 20th May 19, 8:15 PM
    • #7
    • 20th May 19, 8:15 PM
    Any update?
    • eco_warrior
    • By eco_warrior 22nd May 19, 12:57 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    eco_warrior
    • #8
    • 22nd May 19, 12:57 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd May 19, 12:57 PM
    Chargebacks processed today and £25 by way of apology from RBS, which I have accepted.

    The complaints handler said the chargebacks could have been processed without further information being requested so admitted causing a delay.
    • Emily Joy
    • By Emily Joy 22nd May 19, 6:54 PM
    • 383 Posts
    • 174 Thanks
    Emily Joy
    • #9
    • 22nd May 19, 6:54 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd May 19, 6:54 PM
    Glad to hear you've resolved the problem, but what it has to do with Credit Cards?
    • eco_warrior
    • By eco_warrior 22nd May 19, 11:21 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    eco_warrior
    Glad to hear you've resolved the problem, but what it has to do with Credit Cards?
    Originally posted by Emily Joy
    Iíll be honest Emily. It has none at all so you are 100% correct.

    I just automatically posted it here as itís the only part of the forum i post on. My bad
    • eco_warrior
    • By eco_warrior 25th May 19, 8:18 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    eco_warrior
    Update

    Logged into my Revolut account today and it was minus £500.00 (ish) due to the chargeback(s).

    Used the chat function again and they maintained that the top ups failed and the money hadn’t left RBS.

    I’m assuming they aren’t going to challenge the chargebacks if they have already debited my Revolut account.

    A total sham. 2nd complaint opened but not expecting any resolution (again).
    • eco_warrior
    • By eco_warrior 25th May 19, 8:19 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    eco_warrior
    Meant to add, I do expect to be in some sort of collections status in the following days
    • Heng Leng
    • By Heng Leng 28th May 19, 11:23 AM
    • 4,738 Posts
    • 1,553 Thanks
    Heng Leng
    Why not just credit your Revolut via Faster Payment?
    You will generally bypass such problems.

    The sort code is likely to be 04-00-75 with a eight digit account number- check your app.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 28th May 19, 4:14 PM
    • 1,497 Posts
    • 1,256 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    So, Revolut has accepted a Chargeback and processed it against your account because the Chargeback data (which is pretty much a replication of the original transaction data) shows them that is where it must go.

    Surely even Revolut must understand that RBS can only send a Chargeback when there is a transaction with a valid 23-digit ARN in existence and where that transaction was created by Revolut?

    Revolut has a system issue that clearly causes things to fall over when they've 'timed out' an Authorisation request. They may be timing out too early, but regardless of that, if they are going to 'time out' when waiting for an authorisation response, and then add their own decline response, their systems should then be ignoring the 'late' RBS 'approval' responses and not processing any 'phantom' transactions based on those 'late' approvals.

    To my mind that is a serious hole in their system.
    • eco_warrior
    • By eco_warrior 28th May 19, 5:21 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    eco_warrior
    Why not just credit your Revolut via Faster Payment?
    You will generally bypass such problems.

    The sort code is likely to be 04-00-75 with a eight digit account number- check your app.
    Originally posted by Heng Leng
    Hi Heng

    To be honest Iíve made hundreds if not thousands of tops ups via debit card but this is the first issue Iíve had. Faster payments can go missing as well.

    Itís how they have dealt with the issue that stinks to me. Iíll be closing my account, Iíve already opened another account with a similar bank.
    • eco_warrior
    • By eco_warrior 28th May 19, 5:24 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    eco_warrior
    So, Revolut has accepted a Chargeback and processed it against your account because the Chargeback data (which is pretty much a replication of the original transaction data) shows them that is where it must go.

    Surely even Revolut must understand that RBS can only send a Chargeback when there is a transaction with a valid 23-digit ARN in existence and where that transaction was created by Revolut?

    Revolut has a system issue that clearly causes things to fall over when they've 'timed out' an Authorisation request. They may be timing out too early, but regardless of that, if they are going to 'time out' when waiting for an authorisation response, and then add their own decline response, their systems should then be ignoring the 'late' RBS 'approval' responses and not processing any 'phantom' transactions based on those 'late' approvals.

    To my mind that is a serious hole in their system.
    Originally posted by Terry Towelling
    Indeed terry. They donít seem to understand how their own system work, or chargebacks.

    So currently in £510 in the red to Revolut but my RBS balance is correct.

    Revolutís terms and conditions state that if my negative balance remains for 7 days then they will automatically claim the money from my back using the continuous payment authority Iíve set up. This has since been cancelled.

    Iíve also yet to hear back regarding my second complaint to them.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 28th May 19, 6:59 PM
    • 1,497 Posts
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    Terry Towelling
    That's the trouble with relative newcomers; they build their systems around the notion that everything will work according to the ideal standard but, when something unusual happens, it takes time and effort (usually on the part of the customer) to get them up the learning curve and to make sure it doesn't happen again.

    Best of luck with that.
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