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  • FIRST POST
    • Goldman2020
    • By Goldman2020 11th May 19, 7:32 PM
    • 32Posts
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    Goldman2020
    April King
    • #1
    • 11th May 19, 7:32 PM
    April King 11th May 19 at 7:32 PM
    Does anyone have experience of using April King for the writing of Wills?
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 11th May 19, 7:50 PM
    • 5,379 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 11th May 19, 7:50 PM
    • #2
    • 11th May 19, 7:50 PM
    Does anyone have experience of using April King for the writing of Wills?
    Originally posted by Goldman2020
    No but having looked atthir website they are another will writing company. Always avoid like the plague and use an ordinary high street solicitor. Hey should be able to provide good service at a reasonable cost. Will writers will make all sorts of Laos and will try and sell you expensive trusts of questionable effectiveness. Don’t use one.
    • SeniorSam
    • By SeniorSam 11th May 19, 8:53 PM
    • 1,251 Posts
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    SeniorSam
    • #3
    • 11th May 19, 8:53 PM
    • #3
    • 11th May 19, 8:53 PM
    The best possible writers of Wills are the solicitors that are STEP qualified. They have qualifications that deal with all aspects of Wills and Trusts and many solicitors do not know enough about Trusts let alone some of the Will Writing firms that so often get things wrong and can cost your family dearly. If you really do value your family and what you have managed to build up over the years, use a STEP qualified solicitor and don't cut corners with cheap deals that you may think are good.
    Last edited by SeniorSam; 11-05-2019 at 8:54 PM. Reason: error
    I'm a retired IFA who specialised for many years in Inheritance Tax, Wills and Trusts. I cannot offer advice now, so my comments are just meant to be helpful.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 11th May 19, 9:12 PM
    • 5,379 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #4
    • 11th May 19, 9:12 PM
    • #4
    • 11th May 19, 9:12 PM
    The best possible writers of Wills are the solicitors that are STEP qualified. They have qualifications that deal with all aspects of Wills and Trusts and many solicitors do not know enough about Trusts let alone some of the Will Writing firms that so often get things wrong and can cost your family dearly. If you really do value your family and what you have managed to build up over the years, use a STEP qualified solicitor and don't cut corners with cheap deals that you may think are good.
    Originally posted by SeniorSam
    Good advice BUT those wanting a simple will don’t really need the knowledge and expense of a STEP member
    • Larac
    • By Larac 11th May 19, 9:52 PM
    • 873 Posts
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    Larac
    • #5
    • 11th May 19, 9:52 PM
    • #5
    • 11th May 19, 9:52 PM
    No but having looked atthir website they are another will writing company. Always avoid like the plague and use an ordinary high street solicitor. Hey should be able to provide good service at a reasonable cost. Will writers will make all sorts of Laos and will try and sell you expensive trusts of questionable effectiveness. Donít use one.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Have to agree - Will writers come and go - mine decided to pack up the business -leaving the issue of where the will should be stored. (Since moved to a high st solictors) From a practical experience - lot easier if the executors can visit a local high st solicitors and pick the will up.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 12th May 19, 3:59 AM
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    Tom99
    • #6
    • 12th May 19, 3:59 AM
    • #6
    • 12th May 19, 3:59 AM
    April King promote what they call Bloodline Trust Wills, their information pack on the subject is hot on sales patter but lacking in any real detail about exactly how such a trust would work, tax etc.
    I would suggest you listen to what they have to say then use your own STEP solicitor for unbiased advise and to take forward a trust approach if you think it suitable.
    • SeniorSam
    • By SeniorSam 12th May 19, 6:31 AM
    • 1,251 Posts
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    SeniorSam
    • #7
    • 12th May 19, 6:31 AM
    • #7
    • 12th May 19, 6:31 AM
    These sort of Wills are needed when a family wish to ensure that at least half of the family home will be past to the family and not lost where care costs have been needed for many years.

    When a home is owned as Tenants in Common, (half each) the first to die can leave their half of the home to a child/children or grandchild ( 'Bloodline' ) in a Lifetime Interest Trust, as any other beneficiary not of bloodline would negate the new Residence Allowance that would normally be available. Therefore, when the second person dies, both inheritance tax allowance and residence allowance are fully available to set against inheritance taxes, less the value of the Will Trust gift.

    You should ensure that if half of the home is gifted on first death, that the value at that time is not above the nil rate band allowance, otherwise tax would be payable at the time of the gift at 40% at anything above that rate, (presently £325,000)

    When you have a property that may exceed the nil rate allowance, the Trust gift should be worded so that the maximum amount is no more than the nil rate band allowance of the half of the one who died and any additional value should be passed to the spouse.

    The Lifetime Interest Trust is often referred to as an Interest in Possession Trust, which means that the spouse can remain at the home for their lifetime, or move home with the full value of the home being available for the move. If surplus capital were then available from the move, the Trust wording can include that such capital were to be held in Trust for the benefit of the spouse if needed.

    The Trust interest is registered in the Land Registry, showing that the Trust holds an interest of half the property, or the value to the nil rate band allowance and that value can not be touched. It is' ring fenced' for the children or grandchildren absolutely.

    Trustees can be family members, but you may prefer to have a professional Trustee, such as a solicitor to ensure your wishes would be followed, bearing in mind that the ongoing costs may be high, but remember that the wording of these Trusts needs to be very carefully done as errors can cause problems, so a competent solicitor would be best advice when considering complex Wills with Trusts..
    Last edited by SeniorSam; 12-05-2019 at 6:34 AM. Reason: addition
    I'm a retired IFA who specialised for many years in Inheritance Tax, Wills and Trusts. I cannot offer advice now, so my comments are just meant to be helpful.
    • pramsay13
    • By pramsay13 12th May 19, 6:42 AM
    • 755 Posts
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    pramsay13
    • #8
    • 12th May 19, 6:42 AM
    • #8
    • 12th May 19, 6:42 AM
    Some solicitors will write your will and you donate the money to a charity.
    Providing it is reasonably straight forward this is a good way of getting a will and benefitting a local charity.
    • Goldman2020
    • By Goldman2020 12th May 19, 8:25 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Goldman2020
    • #9
    • 12th May 19, 8:25 AM
    • #9
    • 12th May 19, 8:25 AM
    Thank you for your helpful replies
    After having read your replies and not being able to find any independent reviews about April King I have decided to look for a STEP qualified solicitor. I do not think there are any STEP solicitors in my local area however, it seems important enough to travel out to find one.
    What we are considering at some point is changing over from Joint Tenants to Tenants in Common and for each of our adult children to eventually have an equal share of our property once we have both passed on. We need to set something up within our wills to ensure that if either one of our adult children have a need to remain in the property they can do so but at the same time I do not want to deny either one of them their inheritance. I suppose something could be written into the will allowing one to buy the other out if need be. This is a subject of which I know little and so please bear with me.
    • SeniorSam
    • By SeniorSam 12th May 19, 8:52 AM
    • 1,251 Posts
    • 649 Thanks
    SeniorSam
    We had a similar problem, but eventually decided to gift half the home to our two children equally, with Lifetime Trust for spouse and on the second death to split everything equally. It was previously that the older child allow a larger proportion to be made available for the younger to buy a flat, but then thought that it best to split in half and avoid any later problems. It really depends on the ages of your children and what remains in the 'Pot'. The pension pot is already in Trust as all pensions are, but that would also be split. Everyones circumstances is different but you do need to think carefully of ALL eventualities, of which, a good solicitor should advise you.
    I'm a retired IFA who specialised for many years in Inheritance Tax, Wills and Trusts. I cannot offer advice now, so my comments are just meant to be helpful.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th May 19, 10:07 AM
    • 36,186 Posts
    • 22,284 Thanks
    getmore4less
    These sort of Wills are needed when a family wish to ensure that at least half of the family home will be past to the family and not lost where care costs have been needed for many years.

    When a home is owned as Tenants in Common, (half each) the first to die can leave their half of the home to a child/children or grandchild ( 'Bloodline' ) in a Lifetime Interest Trust, as any other beneficiary not of bloodline would negate the new Residence Allowance that would normally be available. Therefore, when the second person dies, both inheritance tax allowance and residence allowance are fully available to set against inheritance taxes, less the value of the Will Trust gift.

    You should ensure that if half of the home is gifted on first death, that the value at that time is not above the nil rate band allowance, otherwise tax would be payable at the time of the gift at 40% at anything above that rate, (presently £325,000)

    When you have a property that may exceed the nil rate allowance, the Trust gift should be worded so that the maximum amount is no more than the nil rate band allowance of the half of the one who died and any additional value should be passed to the spouse.

    The Lifetime Interest Trust is often referred to as an Interest in Possession Trust, which means that the spouse can remain at the home for their lifetime, or move home with the full value of the home being available for the move. If surplus capital were then available from the move, the Trust wording can include that such capital were to be held in Trust for the benefit of the spouse if needed.

    The Trust interest is registered in the Land Registry, showing that the Trust holds an interest of half the property, or the value to the nil rate band allowance and that value can not be touched. It is' ring fenced' for the children or grandchildren absolutely.

    Trustees can be family members, but you may prefer to have a professional Trustee, such as a solicitor to ensure your wishes would be followed, bearing in mind that the ongoing costs may be high, but remember that the wording of these Trusts needs to be very carefully done as errors can cause problems, so a competent solicitor would be best advice when considering complex Wills with Trusts..
    Originally posted by SeniorSam
    Your knowledge is out of date the status of these will based lifetime trusts changed in 2006,
    Now know as immediate post death interest trusts(IPDI)

    The most common use of these IPDI trusts is to allow a spouse to live in the property.

    If the life tenant is the spouse then it gets full spouse exemption (no need to restrict the amount to the NRB) going into the trust and counts towards the spouses estate when they dies when it passes to the remaindermen usually the kids.

    the RNRB becomes transferable and any unused NRB also carries over.

    NOTE. to get the RNRB(of either deceased) used against the qualifying part of the property in the trust the kids need to be direct descendants of the second to die.
    • SeniorSam
    • By SeniorSam 12th May 19, 1:07 PM
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    • 649 Thanks
    SeniorSam
    getmore4less, many thanks for the update on changes of the Trust name, although I feel that the result is the same in allowing the spouse to remain in residence and even move to another property using the assets of the whole property. I must try to be better informed as retiring 9 years ago, this has obviously slipped by.

    Perhaps you can therefore qualify that if the Trust gift were to be made to children or grandchildren rather than to the spouse and the value was in excess of the nil rate band allowance, would tax be payable on the excess? That was my concern and I appreciate that this would not apply if it were to the spouse, but then that would not be the case if part of the property were to be kept out of the estate of the spouse for good reason.
    I'm a retired IFA who specialised for many years in Inheritance Tax, Wills and Trusts. I cannot offer advice now, so my comments are just meant to be helpful.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th May 19, 5:29 PM
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    getmore4less
    A life interest trust to a spouse as life tenant has the same effect for most tax purposes as if it was given to the spouse.

    The assets in the trust are ring fenced for most other purposes.

    When the spouse dies, again for most tax purposes they own the assets in the trust.

    Any assets that move out of the trust become PETS on the life tenant estate.


    The life tenants being children changes everything but then the spouse has no interest in the property and the spouse exemption no longer applies.

    As with everything else not going to spouse nil rate band gets used up.
    • SeniorSam
    • By SeniorSam 12th May 19, 9:09 PM
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    SeniorSam
    Thank you, it is as I thought and the reason for limiting the property gift in Trust to the nil rate band amount when given to the children and avoid tax having to be paid at that time. This at least keeps that part of the home safe and it cannot be attacked for care home costs, which may concern some.
    Much appreciated.
    I'm a retired IFA who specialised for many years in Inheritance Tax, Wills and Trusts. I cannot offer advice now, so my comments are just meant to be helpful.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th May 19, 9:21 PM
    • 36,186 Posts
    • 22,284 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Thank you, it is as I thought and the reason for limiting the property gift in Trust to the nil rate band amount when given to the children and avoid tax having to be paid at that time. This at least keeps that part of the home safe and it cannot be attacked for care home costs, which may concern some.
    Much appreciated.
    Originally posted by SeniorSam
    The key is the life tenant if it is the spouse the exemption applies even if the kids are the end beneficiary.

    If the kids have a life interest then no spouse exemption but then it belong in their estates and you get other complications if they don't live there like CGT.

    Buy more important the spouse has no control over part of the house they may want to live in and it can't be used for RNRB.

    There is no point not having the spouse as the life tenant as the nil rate band is transferable if given to the kids it is used.
    • SeniorSam
    • By SeniorSam 13th May 19, 6:41 AM
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    SeniorSam
    That's logical. The spouse is the one who would be the life tenant and be protected in the home until they die. With the children as the beneficiaries, they do not inherit until the spouse has died, after which it would pass to the children together with any other assets that the spouse has left to them.

    Perhaps you would be kind enough to clarify the point that if half the house is left to the children in Trust , with life tenancy for the spouse and that half value is greater than the nil rate band amount, would tax be payable then or not and why as it is a gift greater than that allowance.
    I'm a retired IFA who specialised for many years in Inheritance Tax, Wills and Trusts. I cannot offer advice now, so my comments are just meant to be helpful.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 13th May 19, 9:52 AM
    • 14,579 Posts
    • 17,398 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Thank you for your helpful replies
    After having read your replies and not being able to find any independent reviews about April King I have decided to look for a STEP qualified solicitor. I do not think there are any STEP solicitors in my local area however, it seems important enough to travel out to find one.
    What we are considering at some point is changing over from Joint Tenants to Tenants in Common and for each of our adult children to eventually have an equal share of our property once we have both passed on. We need to set something up within our wills to ensure that if either one of our adult children have a need to remain in the property they can do so but at the same time I do not want to deny either one of them their inheritance. I suppose something could be written into the will allowing one to buy the other out if need be. This is a subject of which I know little and so please bear with me.
    Originally posted by Goldman2020

    IMNSHO you are storing up a lot of trouble for your children there ,and possibly for you.

    Suppose that the survivor of the two of you decides that actually they'd quite like to live in that nice care home up the road on the proceeds of the house rather than the scruffy council run one ? They wont be able to because theyve given half the house away Or, youw ant to move into a flat? Maybe the kids dont like it and wont let you.
    As for letting one live in house but other not lose out, that is squaring the circle and making for arguments among siblings. Sell it and be done.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 13th May 19, 10:09 AM
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    getmore4less
    That's logical. The spouse is the one who would be the life tenant and be protected in the home until they die. With the children as the beneficiaries, they do not inherit until the spouse has died, after which it would pass to the children together with any other assets that the spouse has left to them.

    Perhaps you would be kind enough to clarify the point that if half the house is left to the children in Trust , with life tenancy for the spouse and that half value is greater than the nil rate band amount, would tax be payable then or not and why as it is a gift greater than that allowance.
    Originally posted by SeniorSam
    Will gifts going into a IPDI trust, where the life tenant is the spouse(include civil partner), get the full spouse exemption.

    It is as if the gift was directly to the spouse for IHT purposes.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 13th May 19, 11:09 AM
    • 30,975 Posts
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    Mojisola
    We need to set something up within our wills to ensure that if either one of our adult children have a need to remain in the property they can do so but at the same time I do not want to deny either one of them their inheritance.
    Originally posted by Goldman2020
    We have allowed for the possibility that one of ours may be living with us longterm (because of health problems) so we have a clause in our will that the sale of the property can be delayed by nine months to give everyone time to grieve but also sort out new accommodation without penalising other beneficiaries.

    I think it's unfair to allow one child to take up life-long residence.
    • SeniorSam
    • By SeniorSam 13th May 19, 1:13 PM
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    SeniorSam
    getmore4less ....................You missed the question.

    Gifting half property to CHILDREN with spouse having a life interest, if half house above nil rate band, would that trigger tax payments?
    Last edited by SeniorSam; 13-05-2019 at 1:14 PM. Reason: addition
    I'm a retired IFA who specialised for many years in Inheritance Tax, Wills and Trusts. I cannot offer advice now, so my comments are just meant to be helpful.
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