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  • FIRST POST
    • GibbsRule No3
    • By GibbsRule No3 3rd May 19, 9:37 AM
    • 775Posts
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    GibbsRule No3
    Bike4Work scheme
    • #1
    • 3rd May 19, 9:37 AM
    Bike4Work scheme 3rd May 19 at 9:37 AM
    My work offers this scheme and as a cyclist I thought I'd like a new bike. I will be employed by the company for the full 12 months of the scheme but in March 2020 I will get my State pension so no need to pay NI, my question is will I be able to take advantage of the scheme? I'm thinking the answer will be no but wondered if anyone knew, before my very slow HR department respond to the question. There is mention of NI but it just says you cannot partake if you fall below the National Minimum wage and thus don't pay NI. I won't fall below and will continue to pay Income Tax but not NI.

    Answering my own question, seems I can join and just two months NI would not be of benefit.
    Last edited by GibbsRule No3; 03-05-2019 at 10:39 AM. Reason: I have my answer.
    Paddle No 21
Page 2
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 6th May 19, 2:55 PM
    • 2,399 Posts
    • 2,658 Thanks
    parking_question_chap
    Drama Queen? Please. There are 376,000 bikes stolen every year in the UK, the chances of ending up with a stolen one, particularly on sites like Gumtree or Craig's list is high enough
    Originally posted by Nasqueron

    So are you saying nobody should buy a second hand bike in case it might be stolen? please!
    What are people who want to sell their bike to fund an upgrade supposed to do then? Leave it in the shed to rot? Rather wasteful in my eyes.
    Last edited by parking_question_chap; 06-05-2019 at 2:58 PM.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 6th May 19, 8:50 PM
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    Nasqueron
    So are you saying nobody should buy a second hand bike in case it might be stolen? please!
    What are people who want to sell their bike to fund an upgrade supposed to do then? Leave it in the shed to rot? Rather wasteful in my eyes.
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap

    Nope, I'm saying the c2w scheme is a better option than chancing it on a second hand bike of unknown providence. At the least you need to see the bike, get the serial number, check it's not reported stolen before you part with cash, see if the owner knows what they are talking about e.g. if it has clipless, does he know the type of pedal? Then, check over the entire bike, look for chain wear (take your tool), wheel true, any obvious scuff or impact marks that could be covered up, check shifters, will it need cables replacing (can you tell?), do gears shift nicely (indexing, new cassette?), is it the right height, is the seat post seized, can you adjust stuff. How worn are the tyres, do you need new ones soon etc etc

    It's a lot to check over before parting with money with no comeback with it being a private sale. A lot can go wrong for someone looking to start commuting on a bike with little experience (which C2W types tend to be)
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 6th May 19, 8:52 PM
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    Nasqueron
    Thats not correct.
    If you buy a house with a mortgage you do own the house. You simply have a loan that needs to be repaid. It doesnt mean the bank owns the house, it just means they will take ownership of it should payments stop. A slight technicality but needs to be mentioned.
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap

    Which is exactly the same as the cycle scheme...


    Hence why it's a false analogy, it's not true and has been shown not to be true. Repeating it after you've been shown it not to be true is telling lies.
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 7th May 19, 12:27 PM
    • 2,399 Posts
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    parking_question_chap
    Nope, I'm saying the c2w scheme is a better option than chancing it on a second hand bike of unknown providence. At the least you need to see the bike, get the serial number, check it's not reported stolen before you part with cash, see if the owner knows what they are talking about e.g. if it has clipless, does he know the type of pedal? Then, check over the entire bike, look for chain wear (take your tool), wheel true, any obvious scuff or impact marks that could be covered up, check shifters, will it need cables replacing (can you tell?), do gears shift nicely (indexing, new cassette?), is it the right height, is the seat post seized, can you adjust stuff. How worn are the tyres, do you need new ones soon etc etc

    It's a lot to check over before parting with money with no comeback with it being a private sale. A lot can go wrong for someone looking to start commuting on a bike with little experience (which C2W types tend to be)
    Originally posted by Nasqueron

    Fair enough. I disagree.
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 7th May 19, 12:28 PM
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    parking_question_chap
    Which is exactly the same as the cycle scheme...

    Hence why it's a false analogy, it's not true and has been shown not to be true. Repeating it after you've been shown it not to be true is telling lies.
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    So why did you say you dont own a house if you have a mortgage?
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 7th May 19, 1:27 PM
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    Nasqueron
    Fair enough. I disagree.
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap

    Disagree with what? The fact that buying a second hand bike for a novice rider with no experience is fraught with issues vs buying from a shop where you have comeback if there are any issues?



    So why did you say you dont own a house if you have a mortgage?
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap

    I was making a facetious comment in response to the false claim in the post I quoted that you don't "own" the cycle to work bike after the loan to your company is paid back, as if that's some sort of barrier to using the bike
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 7th May 19, 4:02 PM
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    parking_question_chap
    Disagree with what? The fact that buying a second hand bike for a novice rider with no experience is fraught with issues vs buying from a shop where you have comeback if there are any issues?
    Originally posted by Nasqueron


    Yes I totally disagree with the above. Besides, it isnt a "fact", its your opinion.

    That aside OP did make the below comment. Funny kind of novice, but thats just my opinion.

    "I have used the scheme before, not the last bike two years ago but the one before that."
    • GibbsRule No3.
    • By GibbsRule No3. 7th May 19, 6:04 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    GibbsRule No3.
    Yes I totally disagree with the above. Besides, it isnt a "fact", its your opinion.

    That aside OP did make the below comment. Funny kind of novice, but thats just my opinion.

    "I have used the scheme before, not the last bike two years ago but the one before that."
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap
    I don’t think Nas was referring to me as such, just that a new rider might feel better buying a new bike rather than a “cheaper” second hand one. Even with my years of riding to work, I would not consider a secondhand one either.
    Paddle No 21
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 8th May 19, 8:54 AM
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    Nasqueron
    Yes I totally disagree with the above. Besides, it isnt a "fact", its your opinion.

    That aside OP did make the below comment. Funny kind of novice, but thats just my opinion.

    "I have used the scheme before, not the last bike two years ago but the one before that."
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap

    It's a fact that buying a second hand bike has more risk and needs more skill than buying a new bike from store, that's not an opinion - all the reasons I listed above are things a new rider would need to check, which of those are not factual?


    The only mention of the OP in the context of C2W is that first post, it's perfectly clear to anyone reading this that the discussion is about C2W in general, not the OP.
    • Spidernick
    • By Spidernick 8th May 19, 9:00 AM
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    Spidernick
    Why is that ?

    All seems perfectly within the rules to me.
    £800 - 42% = £464 / 12 = £38.66. 7% of £800 = £56.
    Originally posted by molerat
    I thought it wasn't as simple as that and you had to pay the full VAT, with no tax and NI relief on that? Certainly when I did it years ago I struggled to work out how they came up with the monthly amount I paid (even factoring in the VAT)! Saying that, I thought it was still good value.
    'I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my father. Not screaming and terrified like his passengers.' (Bob Monkhouse).

    Sky? Believe in better.

    Note: win, draw or lose (not 'loose' - opposite of tight!)
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 8th May 19, 12:45 PM
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    Nasqueron
    I thought it wasn't as simple as that and you had to pay the full VAT, with no tax and NI relief on that? Certainly when I did it years ago I struggled to work out how they came up with the monthly amount I paid (even factoring in the VAT)! Saying that, I thought it was still good value.
    Originally posted by Spidernick

    If you are going through PAYE you simply put the value of the bike into the website, get the certificate, the firm pays for the bike and you pay the firm back through your payslip before tax / NI is done so you appear to earn less, so pay less tax, hence the savings
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 8th May 19, 6:11 PM
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    parking_question_chap
    It's a fact that buying a second hand bike has more risk and needs more skill than buying a new bike from store, that's not an opinion - all the reasons I listed above are things a new rider would need to check, which of those are not factual?

    The only mention of the OP in the context of C2W is that first post, it's perfectly clear to anyone reading this that the discussion is about C2W in general, not the OP.
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Nah disagree, not even sure where your logic comes from.

    Perfectly simple for a novice to put a little effort in and get a perfectly good used bike with minimal risk. Risk/reward means used far outweights new.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 9th May 19, 10:17 AM
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    Nasqueron
    Nah disagree, not even sure where your logic comes from.

    Perfectly simple for a novice to put a little effort in and get a perfectly good used bike with minimal risk. Risk/reward means used far outweights new.
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap
    All the points I made are things you are suggesting someone with little or no bike experience can check simply which is incorrect e.g. you expect a new rider to be able to check chain wear by sight? As you're just ignoring the points made because you don't actually have a counter argument I'll leave you to it.
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 9th May 19, 5:48 PM
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    parking_question_chap
    Not sure why you have added this beginner aspect, presume its to try and add relevance to your opinion. Anyhow, even a beginner will be able to access enough information online to inspect a used cycle. Plenty of people manage to buy cars day in day out and I doubt many of them have a doctorate in engineering.

    Never inspected a chain myself. My commuter is about ten years old now, my usage as been in sun, rain and snow. Its on its original chain.

    Does it move, stop and change gear and look in half decent nick? If so thats enough for most beginners.

    brb off to spend £1,000 on a bike in case the £350 second hand alternative needs £40 spending to have the chain swapped.
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 9th May 19, 8:51 PM
    • 2,592 Posts
    • 1,728 Thanks
    Johnmcl7
    Not sure why you have added this beginner aspect, presume its to try and add relevance to your opinion. Anyhow, even a beginner will be able to access enough information online to inspect a used cycle. Plenty of people manage to buy cars day in day out and I doubt many of them have a doctorate in engineering.

    Never inspected a chain myself. My commuter is about ten years old now, my usage as been in sun, rain and snow. Its on its original chain.

    Does it move, stop and change gear and look in half decent nick? If so thats enough for most beginners.

    brb off to spend £1,000 on a bike in case the £350 second hand alternative needs £40 spending to have the chain swapped.
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap
    When I was new to cycling I saw a local second hand MTB for sale at around a third of the RRP but had no idea if it was any good or not. Showed some bike friends the spec which they said was decent and went to have a look, bike was around six months old and looked in good condition so I bought it.

    Never had any issues with it apart from those I inflicted on it and even if it needed a new chain or similar parts unless the parts are fancier it's not that expensive. I was taking part in a 24 hour race where the mud was abrasive and ruined most of the moving parts on it (https://photos.smugmug.com/Events/Velocity-Cafe-Bike-Runs/i-Wz8q2kC/0/0fbaae25/XL/DSC03130-XL.jpg), that was a couple of hundred to have the bike stripped down, cleaned up and most of the drivetrain replaced. I doubt any second hand bike being sold would be in such poor condition and even if it was, it would be pretty obvious to anyone.
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 11th May 19, 1:23 PM
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    parking_question_chap
    When I was new to cycling I saw a local second hand MTB for sale at around a third of the RRP but had no idea if it was any good or not. Showed some bike friends the spec which they said was decent and went to have a look, bike was around six months old and looked in good condition so I bought it.

    Never had any issues with it apart from those I inflicted on it and even if it needed a new chain or similar parts unless the parts are fancier it's not that expensive. I was taking part in a 24 hour race where the mud was abrasive and ruined most of the moving parts on it (https://photos.smugmug.com/Events/Velocity-Cafe-Bike-Runs/i-Wz8q2kC/0/0fbaae25/XL/DSC03130-XL.jpg), that was a couple of hundred to have the bike stripped down, cleaned up and most of the drivetrain replaced. I doubt any second hand bike being sold would be in such poor condition and even if it was, it would be pretty obvious to anyone.
    Originally posted by Johnmcl7



    Thats just it. An absolute wealth of information available on forums, websites, youtube and from friends. And a perfect example of how even a used bike plus a significant clean/rebuild would come in at about half the price of a new one.

    I suppose I should be glad that people still buy new bikes, as it enables savvy buyers a plethora of used cycles to pick from a few years later, and in my experience many of them hardly used.
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