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  • FIRST POST
    • DigForVictory
    • By DigForVictory 28th Oct 18, 11:13 AM
    • 9,476Posts
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    DigForVictory
    How to suggest it's time to hand over the car keys?
    • #1
    • 28th Oct 18, 11:13 AM
    How to suggest it's time to hand over the car keys? 28th Oct 18 at 11:13 AM
    Has anyone had This Conversation with anyone recently & how did it go? Are there any phrases that help, or that lead straight to disinheritance?!

    I honestly cannot leave it for mum's GP - who blamelessly doesn't seem to get out of the surgery let alone see how the patients travel.

    Mum's had an unexplained fall & is often a bit dizzy stood up, but that's not enough evidence of physical fraility to convince her.

    She'll probably kick like a mule unless presented with a well thought through set of alternatives. (I know I would!)

    I don't think we can postpone this chat much longer & I would have thought it has to be face to face. I suspect Dad is closing is eyes to the problem as otherwise he'll have to deal with her (understandable, but) annoyance.
Page 1
    • humptydumptybits
    • By humptydumptybits 28th Oct 18, 12:29 PM
    • 2,553 Posts
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    humptydumptybits
    • #2
    • 28th Oct 18, 12:29 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Oct 18, 12:29 PM
    With my elderly relative I asked how she'd feel if she hurt someone. We'd tried all sorts, GP told her not to drive, she ignored her. Mechanic told her she was doing so few miles it would be better value to get taxis, we said it wasn't safe. She ignored it all, when I asked how she'd feel if she hurt someone she got upset and cried but handed over the keys.


    The talk about a nursing home was alot worse.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 28th Oct 18, 9:53 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #3
    • 28th Oct 18, 9:53 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Oct 18, 9:53 PM
    ours came to a head when DVLA asked FIL to do a driving assessment. Which he failed. He'd been on yearly licence renewals until then, and had had to not drive for short periods following various cardiac episodes. I kept expecting someone medical to tell him to give up, but unless there is a definite 'episode' I don't think they like to.

    The letter confirming that'd he'd failed said he could appeal, so FIL went to the GP to ask about doing so. The GP asked what good he thought it would do.

    He was grumpy about it, and I don't think he would have taken it from a family member, so MIL arranged life to make sure that he never drove more than short distances, and only with her. He was OK on short familiar routes.

    However, in your mum's case the unexplained fall and the dizziness should surely be discussed with her GP, who might then give 'don't drive' advice. The GP won't talk to you without your mother's permission, but you can presumably contact them and make them aware of the situation.

    If you can get Dad as an ally, it might help.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats, 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself, multiple poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: ready to decrease / decreasing on all parts of the mohair cardigan pattern! but moved onto wrist warmers for friends at Christmas ...
    • Newly retired
    • By Newly retired 29th Oct 18, 8:50 AM
    • 2,410 Posts
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    Newly retired
    • #4
    • 29th Oct 18, 8:50 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Oct 18, 8:50 AM
    A tricky one. Maybe if there is a recent accident caused by an elderly driver it might introduce the topic.
    Or draw up some financial facts: the cost of running a car, versus the cost of taxis. I think that was what convinced my MIL to give up. She did get a mobility scooter which was ok for a while, but she was not really very safe. Look at bus timetables, if relevant.

    In my fatherís case, he scraped the car on several occasions getting it into the drive and garage, and even had a brush with a fire engine, trying to get out of its way. Eventually he became physically ill and the car stayed in the garage. Although he recovered after an operation, he did not drive again. He would not get rid of the car though. It sat in the garage for over a year. My mum asked my son to sell it on the day of his funeral.
    • Mnd
    • By Mnd 29th Oct 18, 9:53 AM
    • 1,235 Posts
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    Mnd
    • #5
    • 29th Oct 18, 9:53 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Oct 18, 9:53 AM
    Hide the keys!
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 29th Oct 18, 11:35 AM
    • 2,542 Posts
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    badmemory
    • #6
    • 29th Oct 18, 11:35 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Oct 18, 11:35 AM
    If you do succeed in stopping someone driving then go on to make sure that they keep on doing the things "out of the house" that they always used to. When the optician stopped my mother driving, my mother stopped everything. Used to go to the gym 3 times a week, out to the local towns precinct for a couple of hours walk around virtually every day. Regular bus stop just down the road, refused to go on one, refused to go by taxi. Unfortunately I was still working & I had no idea what was happening during the day.



    So be aware! You can't just say you can't drive anymore. Hard luck! & then walk away, job done.
    • Misslayed
    • By Misslayed 29th Oct 18, 11:57 AM
    • 5,908 Posts
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    Misslayed
    • #7
    • 29th Oct 18, 11:57 AM
    • #7
    • 29th Oct 18, 11:57 AM
    When we had this problem, my sister "borrowed " Mum's car as hers had broken down and she needed it to get to work/ferry youngsters about (it hadn't, was a fib). We had had "the conversation" some time before, and persuaded Mum to give up her car on financial grounds, but she missed it too much and out of the blue bought herself another one - the salesman saw her coming obvs. We gave her lifts to all her appointments etc, and her vascular dementia progressed to a point where she had forgotten about it quite soon. She had been reading her clock as her speedometer and the temperature gauge as her petrol gauge. One day she knocked on a random stranger's door to see if I was there because they had a vaguely similar car to mine on their drive. That was when we decided drastic action was needed before she hurt someone or herself. She was always very generous about lending the car in emergencies, so it wasn't an unusual request from my sister.
    Hi. Martin has asked me to tell you I'm a (novice) Board Guide on the Competitions, Site Feedback and Campaigns boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with abuse). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • humptydumptybits
    • By humptydumptybits 29th Oct 18, 4:42 PM
    • 2,553 Posts
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    humptydumptybits
    • #8
    • 29th Oct 18, 4:42 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Oct 18, 4:42 PM
    ours came to a head when DVLA asked FIL to do a driving assessment. Which he failed. He'd been on yearly licence renewals until then, and had had to not drive for short periods following various cardiac episodes. I kept expecting someone medical to tell him to give up, but unless there is a definite 'episode' I don't think they like to.

    The letter confirming that'd he'd failed said he could appeal, so FIL went to the GP to ask about doing so. The GP asked what good he thought it would do.

    He was grumpy about it, and I don't think he would have taken it from a family member, so MIL arranged life to make sure that he never drove more than short distances, and only with her. He was OK on short familiar routes.

    However, in your mum's case the unexplained fall and the dizziness should surely be discussed with her GP, who might then give 'don't drive' advice. The GP won't talk to you without your mother's permission, but you can presumably contact them and make them aware of the situation.

    If you can get Dad as an ally, it might help.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue

    Do you mean he carried on driving after failing the assessment? Is that legal?
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 29th Oct 18, 10:27 PM
    • 39,868 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #9
    • 29th Oct 18, 10:27 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Oct 18, 10:27 PM
    Do you mean he carried on driving after failing the assessment? Is that legal?
    Originally posted by humptydumptybits
    No, I meant we were becoming concerned about his ability to drive safely. His actual driving skills remained good, but he would become very tired, and would get confused / lost on familiar journeys. MIL realised this so didn't let him drive on his own any more: if she was going out on her own she'd get the bus rather than let him give her a lift or pick her up.

    once he'd failed the DVLA assessment, he never drove again. When he remembers that he's not allowed to drive any more, he's still grumpy about it. Most of the time he forgets. Forgets he doesn't have a car any more and continues to offer MIL lifts.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats, 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself, multiple poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: ready to decrease / decreasing on all parts of the mohair cardigan pattern! but moved onto wrist warmers for friends at Christmas ...
    • Gers
    • By Gers 30th Oct 18, 9:02 AM
    • 7,407 Posts
    • 50,291 Thanks
    Gers
    Have done this with DM - aged 90. We started the conversation a couple of years ago though it took her to settle in her own mind that giving up driving was necessary even though there was no medical imperative.

    Last September her car was MOTd and then hardly moved all winter apart from once or twice when she drove 500 yards and back. Of course the battery gave up. Once the tax was due at the end of March this year she decided to sell the car.

    For the previous 18 months she had only bought six months of tax each time as she was considering the decision.

    For her it was the loss of independence which jarred, an acceptance that her skills were diminishing and her fear of being responsible for any accident that added to the decision pot.

    Her car was 2011 plate, had only done under 5000 miles and had done no miles since the MOT. The buyer was very happy indeed!
    • maggiem
    • By maggiem 30th Oct 18, 9:10 AM
    • 524 Posts
    • 3,660 Thanks
    maggiem
    Friends ended up removing a part so the car would not start. Dishonest yes, but their parent would not accept not driving and was so dangerous it felt more irresponsible not to stop them driving. Hiding the key only worked briefly. Once 'broken' the mechanic was always coming the next day until eventually they stopped asking.

    Think this is so hard for all concerned. Good luck with it!
    • humptydumptybits
    • By humptydumptybits 30th Oct 18, 2:24 PM
    • 2,553 Posts
    • 10,383 Thanks
    humptydumptybits
    No, I meant we were becoming concerned about his ability to drive safely. His actual driving skills remained good, but he would become very tired, and would get confused / lost on familiar journeys. MIL realised this so didn't let him drive on his own any more: if she was going out on her own she'd get the bus rather than let him give her a lift or pick her up.

    once he'd failed the DVLA assessment, he never drove again. When he remembers that he's not allowed to drive any more, he's still grumpy about it. Most of the time he forgets. Forgets he doesn't have a car any more and continues to offer MIL lifts.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue

    Thanks, I couldn't work it out.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 31st Oct 18, 12:13 AM
    • 39,868 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    Thanks, I couldn't work it out.
    Originally posted by humptydumptybits
    To be fair, I didn't make it clear ...
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats, 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself, multiple poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: ready to decrease / decreasing on all parts of the mohair cardigan pattern! but moved onto wrist warmers for friends at Christmas ...
    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 31st Oct 18, 11:36 AM
    • 879 Posts
    • 1,992 Thanks
    crv1963
    With my Dad it was me that told him, I suggested as he was unwell and tired easily (had prostate cancer + secondaries) that he should stop for a while until he felt better in control. I think it had dawned on him but he didn't like actually having it suggested to him, so out in the open. He then needed me to drive him about which he enjoyed especially the long runs so he could enjoy the scenery. But to the end he told everyone I'd stopped him driving but never sold the car, we disposed of it after his death.

    Likewise my M-I-L refused to give up her car even though she knew she couldn't drive it, it went three years with only about 50 miles a month put on it as my B-I-L took it for a run to keep it from rotting. When she died it was a ten year old car with less than 8k on the clock. My niece now has it. Made a good first car.
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 31st Oct 18, 11:49 AM
    • 30,986 Posts
    • 79,421 Thanks
    Mojisola
    With my Dad it was me that told him
    Originally posted by crv1963
    I had to do this with my Dad - his control of the car was fine - on a track, he would have driven safely - but his response time to things happening around was getting slow to the point of being dangerous.

    Fortunately, we had talked about this a lot regarding a neighbour who had kept driving long after she was safe so it was easier to broach, including the risks of hurting someone and maybe ending up in court.

    Having been a safe driver for many, many years, he saw reason and stopped driving. His car was his pride and joy so he kept that and insured it so that older family members (over 50s) could use it to take him and Mum out and about. The insurance policy specifically excluded him as a driver.

    It made a negative impact on their lives and it's something I'm dreading when my time to stop driving comes - losing the independence is really hard, especially when your mobility isn't good.
    • Arthurian
    • By Arthurian 3rd Nov 18, 6:13 PM
    • 670 Posts
    • 617 Thanks
    Arthurian
    You can report someone who you think is not medically fit to drive to the DVLA, and it is (they say) not revealed who reported the driver.
    https://live.email-dvla.service.gov.uk/w2c/en_gb/forms/EFTD%20Enquiry?button=none&decision=I+have+concern s+over+a+person%27s+fitness+to+drive+and+I+wish+to +tell+the+DVLA&lang=en_gb

    "I have concerns over a person's fitness to drive and I wish to tell the DVLA

    DVLA can only investigate where a driver has a medical condition that affects their ability to drive safely. If you have concerns over dangerous or unsafe driving which is not due to a medical condition, you should contact the police.

    Question 1 of 5
    Third Party Details
    Please provide as much detail as possible so that we can locate the correct driver record.

    All 3rd Party Notifications are treated with the strictest confidence and we will never reveal to the licence holder or any other enquiring party where the information came from originally."
    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 3rd Nov 18, 7:30 PM
    • 879 Posts
    • 1,992 Thanks
    crv1963
    To add to Arthurian post treating staff have an obligation to discuss with patients if they have a concern that medical conditions or treatment affects someones driving ability.

    I have to document my conversation took place and when I had a heart attack I was clearly told the same day that I had to inform my insurer that I had been advised to not drive for a month. Interestingly the DVLA didn't need informing- unless I drove during that month.
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
    • humptydumptybits
    • By humptydumptybits 4th Nov 18, 1:52 PM
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    humptydumptybits
    To be fair, I didn't make it clear ...
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue

    Shall we call it a draw then
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 2nd Dec 18, 7:04 AM
    • 35,035 Posts
    • 41,122 Thanks
    Browntoa
    A friend of mine went down the DVLA route , their father in law has a whole list of problems and refused to stop driving.

    He got the letter and was unable to get his licence back .
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 2nd Dec 18, 1:52 PM
    • 4,283 Posts
    • 6,666 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    My dad was only in his early 60s when I noticed a problem with his driving. Turned out it was his eyesight - he needed glasses for distance/driving, but was wearing a pair of £2.99 over the counter 'readyspex' reading glasses. Apparently, opticians were 'crooks' and £2.99 'was enough to pay for a pair of glasses'.

    After a bit of pursuasion, and threats from Mr S to dismantle his engine until he could pass a sight test, I dragged him to an opticians and bought a proper pair of glasses for him. He then drove safely for a couple of years until, sadly, the big C took him.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 02-12-2018 at 6:19 PM.
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