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  • FIRST POST
    • SVFM
    • By SVFM 16th Dec 16, 9:49 PM
    • 28Posts
    • 76Thanks
    SVFM
    Nhs continuing healthcare
    • #1
    • 16th Dec 16, 9:49 PM
    Nhs continuing healthcare 16th Dec 16 at 9:49 PM
    Wondered if anyone is obtaining the above for a relative and how difficult it is to get?
    Relative has been in care home for 4 years and is self funding. Initially it was residential, then dementia residential and now care home want assessment carried out for nursing care (not continuing healthcare). We have looked at the decision making sheet they will use and feel that the relative meets the criteria for NHS continuing healthcare, particularly as they are in hospital at present following injuries obtained after altercation with another resident (the suggestion of nursing care was discussed prior to this occurring). We need to obtain as much information as we can in order to decide the best option for the relative when/if they leave hospital., as we are considering all options for their future care, including bringing them home to live. Thanks for any replies.
Page 2
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 7th Mar 19, 4:25 AM
    • 24,280 Posts
    • 12,716 Thanks
    lisyloo
    However, we were warned that if a person has predictable decline in their health e,g through dementia, that is not considered complex and therefore they won't qualify. I did say to them "How ill does a person have to be?"!!
    Originally posted by balooney2000
    It all comes down to whether needs are medical or personal.
    My MIL has dimensia and canít dress, wash, walk without assistance however that assistance can be provided by carers and does not need medical professionals.
    Feeding via mouth, washing, dressing, walking are not medical needs.
    Someone can be quite incapable but still not need medical care.

    If the person requires. injections, intravenous drips etc. then that is medical care.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 7th Mar 19, 3:35 PM
    • 35,033 Posts
    • 41,117 Thanks
    Browntoa
    I've got the feeling in going to have to go through this for a relative.

    Double incontinence

    Injection for diabetes ( observed by diabetic nurse practitioner and respite home as unable to self medicate)

    Vascular dementia

    Very poor mobility , danger of falls

    Refuses/not able to wash so hygiene poor

    Open sores on legs as a side issue from diabetes , possibly cause of persistent low level infection (due to dementia they pick at wound continually if Ieft uncovered)

    3 ambulance call outs and admissions to hospital in last 9 months , the last by the visiting diabetic nurse who was concerned about his health not by his family.

    I may start a new thread detailing the whole process from start to finish.
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 12th Mar 19, 2:06 AM
    • 35,033 Posts
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    Browntoa
    Well with my help after reading this thread a letter delivered to the hospital (they are in an acute care ward) stating the LPA attorney says that they :-

    do not have mental capacity to make own decisions

    All discussions to be with the attorney not his wife ( attorney also has LPA for them).

    Full CHC evaluation to take place.

    Under no circumstances is he to be sent home (failed hospital discharge is very costly to the trust )

    We will see what happens next

    Also a separate PALS complaint after a phone call from someone in the hospital , assume the bed management team, saying to his wife that " we are sending him home and there is nothing you can do to stop it " . Totally disgusting behaviour which I assume is happening to other poor people
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 12th Mar 19, 7:55 AM
    • 19,182 Posts
    • 48,693 Thanks
    elsien
    Sometimes it's a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing
    Just been working with the dscharge team to decide whether someone can go home or needs a palliative care bed. I was promised nothing would happen till I'd done my bit. Person discharged by ward without discharge teams knowledge.

    Good luck with it all.
    ETA - for those who may not know, being given CHC funding doesn't mean it's there permanently. There are 6 week then annual reviews and sometimes the person No longer qualifies. Which may seem counterintuitive as dementia progresses, but if the funding is mainly due (for example) to behavioural issues and behaviour settles than can be assessed as full nursing funded no longer being needed.
    Last edited by elsien; 12-03-2019 at 7:59 AM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 12th Mar 19, 9:47 AM
    • 35,033 Posts
    • 41,117 Thanks
    Browntoa
    They can discharge but equally you can refuse to accept them at the door.
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • JRichFleur
    • By JRichFleur 12th Mar 19, 6:59 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JRichFleur
    Petition - Continuing Healthcare Funding
    Clearly everyone is being misinformed about the criteria for Continuing Healthcare Funding. The misinformation/mismanagement is national - and I am afraid intentional from the top down. I will post more info for you but the first thing that everyone facing this needs to do is sign this petition: google this (start a public enquiry into NHS continuing healthcare) and it should come up top of the list in google.
    Last edited by JRichFleur; 12-03-2019 at 7:34 PM. Reason: post needed to be clearer
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 15th Mar 19, 10:05 AM
    • 35,033 Posts
    • 41,117 Thanks
    Browntoa
    I've noticed ageuk recommend beacon

    https://www.beaconchc.co.uk/faqs/screening-checklist/

    Who have a checklist and helpline.

    I noticed that they also handle appeals for you for a fee
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • JRichFleur
    • By JRichFleur 15th Mar 19, 11:55 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JRichFleur
    Very useful information on the issue of CHC on You Tube by Professor Luke Clements on The Care System and Continuing Healthcare. His lecture series (easy to understand) will also provide links to further educate on the legal issues of CHC and Care (usually illegally ignored by the NHS). In the meantime please go to Google and google this: 'Start a public enquiry into NHS continuing healthcare' it should come up top of the list in google.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 5th Apr 19, 6:47 AM
    • 35,033 Posts
    • 41,117 Thanks
    Browntoa
    Well at the moment we have no CHC done but just got fully funded local council place as they have minimal assets.

    Interestingly he was assessed in hospital as being competent mentally by the panel and he was moved from hospital to an assessment unit care home.

    we had a family meeting with just the hospital social worker within 5 minutes she looked at us and said "he's not got mental capacity has he" and everything happened quickly after that.

    His permanent place is in the care home attached to the assessment unit so minimum upheaval
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • JRichFleur
    • By JRichFleur 7th Apr 19, 12:00 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JRichFleur
    Many people are wrongly told they are not eligible for CHC
    Well at the moment we have no CHC done but just got fully funded local council place as they have minimal assets.

    Interestingly he was assessed in hospital as being competent mentally by the panel and he was moved from hospital to an assessment unit care home.

    we had a family meeting with just the hospital social worker within 5 minutes she looked at us and said "he's not got mental capacity has he" and everything happened quickly after that.

    His permanent place is in the care home attached to the assessment unit so minimum upheaval
    Originally posted by Browntoa

    No one here appears to have done the extensive amount of research that is necessary to really know what rules apply when a person is assessed for CHC. Even the 'assessors' are not trained in the Law that lies behind this funding. The system is rife with deliberate misinformation and often illegally denies funding relying on the fact that people can't access clear information easily. Unfortunately despite having been registered with this forum for more than 10 years so far I have been unable to post useful links here. Best starting point are youtube videos by Professor Luke Clements :
    "Social Care Law Lecture Series - NHS Continuing Health Care & Law"

    then use useful forums such as Care to Be Different. I will say you need to study everything you can including all the care acts. If I am given the opportunity I will post links at some point. In the meantime please sign and post the petition (copy and paste: Start a public enquiry into NHS Continuing Healthcare ). I will try to add the link.
    Well at the moment we have no CHC done but just got fully funded local council place as they have minimal assets.

    Interestingly he was assessed in hospital as being competent mentally by the panel and he was moved from hospital to an assessment unit care home.

    we had a family meeting with just the hospital social worker within 5 minutes she looked at us and said "he's not got mental capacity has he" and everything happened quickly after that.
    Originally posted by Browntoa
    His permanent place is in the care home attached to the assessment unit so minimum upheaval
    Originally posted by Browntoa

    No one here appears to have done the extensive amount of research that is necessary to really know what rules apply when a person is assessed for CHC. Even the 'assessors' are not trained in the Law that lies behind this funding. The system is rife with deliberate misinformation and often illegally denies funding relying on the fact that people can't access clear information easily. Unfortunately despite having been registered with this forum for more than 10 years so far I have been unable to post useful links here. Best starting point are youtube videos by Professor Luke Clements :
    "Social Care Law Lecture Series - NHS Continuing Health Care & Law"

    then use useful forums such as Care to Be Different. I will say you need to study everything you can including all the care acts. If I am given the opportunity I will post links at some point. In the meantime please sign and post the petition (copy and paste: Start a public enquiry into NHS Continuing Healthcare ). Tried to add the link but not allowed.
    • JRichFleur
    • By JRichFleur 7th Apr 19, 12:37 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JRichFleur
    Many people are wrongly told they are not eligible for CHC
    Apologies for the double post no idea how that happened.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 7th Apr 19, 10:38 AM
    • 35,033 Posts
    • 41,117 Thanks
    Browntoa
    I forgot to say , as his wife lives in the property it was ignored from the assessment under the "mandatory disregard" rules.

    In other words it's excluded from his assets totally .

    Forced sales only happen when there is only one person occupying the property .
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 7th Apr 19, 10:42 AM
    • 35,033 Posts
    • 41,117 Thanks
    Browntoa
    Professor Clements lecture

    https://youtu.be/HrpFLLwGqhs
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • JRichFleur
    • By JRichFleur 7th Apr 19, 10:54 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JRichFleur
    Thanks for posting the link
    • JRichFleur
    • By JRichFleur 7th Apr 19, 10:56 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JRichFleur
    Could you find the petition link I mentioned in my post and put it here. This is the only way many people are going to be helped and the only way we have of having a chance to change this mismanged/corrupt and often illegal system. Thank you.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 7th Apr 19, 11:32 AM
    • 6,936 Posts
    • 7,593 Thanks
    p00hsticks
    Could you find the petition link I mentioned in my post and put it here.
    Originally posted by JRichFleur

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/238047
    • JRichFleur
    • By JRichFleur 7th Apr 19, 4:07 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JRichFleur
    Thanks again.
    • L-J-R
    • By L-J-R 7th Apr 19, 7:14 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 58 Thanks
    L-J-R
    Petition
    Just signed - thinking of my mum who was granted a small amount after her death ten years ago - despite her condition ticking most of the boxes on the 'checklist'
    • JRichFleur
    • By JRichFleur 8th Apr 19, 12:00 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JRichFleur
    L-J-R Thank you.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 13th Apr 19, 8:49 AM
    • 35,033 Posts
    • 41,117 Thanks
    Browntoa
    Dealing with the local councils fun .

    Respite care , forms from council , fill in and attached all his financial documents less than 3 weeks ago.

    Residential care , forms from council , fill in asking for same document pile they only had 3 weeks ago ! . Obviously unable to get an answer straight away as that department is answerphone only and we will "endeavour to get back to you within 2-3 days" . So again attached documents that they probably have sitting in his folder.

    Is it always like this ?
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
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