Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • waterbaby
    • By waterbaby 18th May 19, 11:00 PM
    • 490Posts
    • 455Thanks
    waterbaby
    Pension sharing; new spouse / death
    • #1
    • 18th May 19, 11:00 PM
    Pension sharing; new spouse / death 18th May 19 at 11:00 PM
    Hello,

    What would happen in the following circumstance?

    A and B are married and raise a family; A earning the money, B doing the large majority of house/children work. They divorce, and agree (through court order) that once A retires, B will receive a share of A's pension as regular income.

    Chronologically:
    Children become adults.
    A remarries, new spouse is C. C has own income. No children.
    A retires and makes the agreed payments.
    A dies.

    Upon A's death, what would happen to B's regular share of A's pension, given that A is now married to C? Court order apparently does not specify.

    Thank you
Page 1
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 19th May 19, 8:59 AM
    • 15,652 Posts
    • 83,143 Thanks
    GDB2222
    • #2
    • 19th May 19, 8:59 AM
    • #2
    • 19th May 19, 8:59 AM
    What sort of pension scheme is this?

    Did the husband make any provision for death benefits for former wife?

    It's looking like she's going to get nothing.


    She may have a claim against husband's estate. Or against her solicitor! This is a well known problem with earmarking, and it ought to have been thought through.
    Last edited by GDB2222; 19-05-2019 at 9:03 AM.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 19th May 19, 12:28 PM
    • 4,672 Posts
    • 7,413 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #3
    • 19th May 19, 12:28 PM
    • #3
    • 19th May 19, 12:28 PM
    This does sound like an earmarking or attachment order which, as GDB says, ends on the death of A.

    If C receives a survivor's pension, it will be in accordance with the scheme rules on the payment of surviving legally married spouse/eligible cohabiting partner benefits, and will be nothing to do with the divorce order.

    Did A & B divorce before or after December 2000? The reason I ask is that whilst attachment/earmarking orders are still available, most couples who divorced after December 2000 opted for Pension Sharing Orders (PSOs). In these cases, the X% of pension awarded to the spouse is placed in his/her own pension fund, and is theirs even after the death of the pension fund member.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 19-05-2019 at 1:22 PM.
    • waterbaby
    • By waterbaby 19th May 19, 2:03 PM
    • 490 Posts
    • 455 Thanks
    waterbaby
    • #4
    • 19th May 19, 2:03 PM
    • #4
    • 19th May 19, 2:03 PM
    Thank you for the responses. It is a civil service pension.

    Not entirely sure when the divorce was, probably pre-Dec 2000 but can't say for sure.

    The death of A is fairly imminent, and I feel that B needs to seek professional advice to clarify the situation. B and C both seem to think 'things will get sorted out' by solicitors or whoever. C feels that B does have an ethical entitlement, but I can't imagine that B wants to be dependent on C.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 19th May 19, 2:26 PM
    • 15,652 Posts
    • 83,143 Thanks
    GDB2222
    • #5
    • 19th May 19, 2:26 PM
    • #5
    • 19th May 19, 2:26 PM
    Contact the pension scheme tomorrow, to see what can be done within the scheme rules. This particular scheme is very complex.

    Is A still compus mentis, or does someone have a power of attorney?

    I suspect that B will have to make a claim against A's estate.
    Last edited by GDB2222; 19-05-2019 at 2:29 PM.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 19th May 19, 2:29 PM
    • 4,672 Posts
    • 7,413 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #6
    • 19th May 19, 2:29 PM
    • #6
    • 19th May 19, 2:29 PM
    Thank you for the responses. It is a civil service pension.

    Not entirely sure when the divorce was, probably pre-Dec 2000 but can't say for sure.

    The death of A is fairly imminent, and I feel that B needs to seek professional advice to clarify the situation. B and C both seem to think 'things will get sorted out' by solicitors or whoever. C feels that B does have an ethical entitlement, but I can't imagine that B wants to be dependent on C.
    Originally posted by waterbaby
    If, as it would appear, the pensions attachment order ends with A's death, then there will be nothing any solicitor can do in relation to B's pension award.

    As this is a civil service pension then C will almost certainly receive a survivor's pension (fine print depends on date A left the civil service and date of marriage to C). The civil service rules don't allow for survivor's benefits to be paid to anyone other than the entitled person.

    Only other option would be for B to make a claim against A's estate - perhaps for a one-off lump sum - but I really can't comment on how/if this would work. One for the solicitor, I'm afraid.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 20-05-2019 at 5:34 PM.
    • waterbaby
    • By waterbaby 19th May 19, 4:24 PM
    • 490 Posts
    • 455 Thanks
    waterbaby
    • #7
    • 19th May 19, 4:24 PM
    • #7
    • 19th May 19, 4:24 PM
    There's no power of attorney, but A not able to discuss fully.

    I'm not close enough to this to take action directly, but close enough to encourage some action. Thank you, you've confirmed that I am right that B needs to be on the front foot with this.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 19th May 19, 4:32 PM
    • 31,447 Posts
    • 19,492 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #8
    • 19th May 19, 4:32 PM
    • #8
    • 19th May 19, 4:32 PM
    https://www.sharingpensions.co.uk/yourques7.htm

    may be worth a read.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

55Posts Today

2,815Users online

Martin's Twitter