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    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 13th May 19, 8:39 AM
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    crv1963
    Making a will
    • #1
    • 13th May 19, 8:39 AM
    Making a will 13th May 19 at 8:39 AM
    Hi,

    We're going today to a Solicitor who drafted our wills originally- we have through our own recent experiences decided to make some additional information/ guidance into them.

    Mirror will me to her and vice versa, on second death equally share the estate between four beneficiaries. So far so good. We want to add-

    1) House to be emptied of contents and on the market within 6 months of the second death.

    2) Funeral arrangements- Humanist ceremony at local crem and wake back to a local pub. To look in our personal papers for expression of wishes for music/ readings etc.

    3) Two executors to agree a date and time for the four beneficiaries to go through the property, identify who wants what, dispose of the rest as they see fit (Charity/ Tip/ Sell), no other people need to be involved unless all four agree. if they can't make it at the same time within the 6 months then they rely on their sibling to get something on their behalf.

    This would we hope prevent pressure being applied to one or more to not share or at least have the option of a share of our belongings. To look in our expression of wishes for items such as jewelry and a few other sentimental items we are not ready to part with yet, although we may give them to them as time goes by over the years (hopefully we have the years!)

    Are these reasonable additions or timescales to put in a will?
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
Page 1
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 13th May 19, 9:07 AM
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    AnotherJoe
    • #2
    • 13th May 19, 9:07 AM
    • #2
    • 13th May 19, 9:07 AM
    Sounds as if there is something going on behind 3 in which case whatever you action you direct in will might not take place so best to focus on giving sentimental items or whatever away first, or leave more explicit directions in a letter with will.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th May 19, 9:27 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #3
    • 13th May 19, 9:27 AM
    • #3
    • 13th May 19, 9:27 AM
    Hi,

    We're going today to a Solicitor who drafted our wills originally- we have through our own recent experiences decided to make some additional information/ guidance into them.

    Mirror will me to her and vice versa, on second death equally share the estate between four beneficiaries. So far so good. We want to add-

    1) House to be emptied of contents and on the market within 6 months of the second death.

    2) Funeral arrangements- Humanist ceremony at local crem and wake back to a local pub. To look in our personal papers for expression of wishes for music/ readings etc.

    3) Two executors to agree a date and time for the four beneficiaries to go through the property, identify who wants what, dispose of the rest as they see fit (Charity/ Tip/ Sell), no other people need to be involved unless all four agree. if they can't make it at the same time within the 6 months then they rely on their sibling to get something on their behalf.

    This would we hope prevent pressure being applied to one or more to not share or at least have the option of a share of our belongings. To look in our expression of wishes for items such as jewelry and a few other sentimental items we are not ready to part with yet, although we may give them to them as time goes by over the years (hopefully we have the years!)

    Are these reasonable additions or timescales to put in a will?
    Originally posted by crv1963
    Very tricky. You need to discuss this with your-solicitor.
    • nom de plume
    • By nom de plume 13th May 19, 10:00 AM
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    nom de plume
    • #4
    • 13th May 19, 10:00 AM
    • #4
    • 13th May 19, 10:00 AM
    Are the 4 beneficiaries your children and are you both their parents?
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 13th May 19, 11:05 AM
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    Tom99
    • #5
    • 13th May 19, 11:05 AM
    • #5
    • 13th May 19, 11:05 AM
    I would have thought there is little point putting all that stuff in your actual will as that will not guarantee it is complied with. Why not include it all in a letter of wishes and attach it to your original will. You can then update that letter at any time.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 13th May 19, 12:16 PM
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    TBagpuss
    • #6
    • 13th May 19, 12:16 PM
    • #6
    • 13th May 19, 12:16 PM
    I think those are all things which you need todiscuss with your executors ahead of time, and perhaps put intpo a letter of wishes which you give them now, and which you also store with the will.

    Why:

    1. Executors have a duty to act in the best interests of the benefiricaies as a whole - normally it is likely to be appropriate to get the house on the market sooner rather than later but there might be situations where that it not appropriate - for instace, if there were a legal dispute such as a boundary dispute ongoing at the time of the 2nd daeth, or if there were partly compelted works where it was sensible to compelte them before marketing.
    Talk to your solicitors but it may well be more sensobkle to inclue a form wsh that the property should be emptied promptly and sold as soon as practical.

    2) It's quite common for the funeral to have already taken place before people start to think about applying for probate or digging into the will, so while there is no reason why you can't in clude your funeral wishes in the will, this is something you should make your children and executors aware of directly, not rely on th will, as they may not read it until it is too late. In any event, your wishes refgarding funeral arrangemtnets are just that - wishes. They are not legall binding so they don't need to be in the will. (It is helpful to have something in writing, as it reduces the risk of disagreemwents between those left behind, but that can be a simple letter to back up whatever conversations you have)

    3) Speak to your solicitor but again, I doubt this can be a binding requirement, it's probably better toput it as a request / suggestion in a letter of wishes.

    (You could also consider talking to your benefciaries, find out in advance whwther there are things which have particualr sentimental value to one or more of them, and make a short list of individual gifts, ideally so that each of them gets at least one of the things which are really important ti them. This will also help yuou identify if there is anything which they all (or more than oe of them) attach great importnace to, and you can talk to them about how that is resolved.

    Are you expecting there to be problems about sorting out the home contetns / personal belongongs? If so, then setting out what you would like to have happen is sensible. This might mean listing the items each is to have, or ir may be giving clear instructions to the executors that you would like them to disribute the home contetns / personal items and are happy for them to select a fair method for doing so.
    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 14th May 19, 12:15 PM
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    crv1963
    • #7
    • 14th May 19, 12:15 PM
    • #7
    • 14th May 19, 12:15 PM
    Thank you all for your prompt responses that I read before we saw the Solicitor.

    In essence all three points could not be included in our wills for the reasons you have stated above!

    1) It is up to the executors the timing, for the reasons above and because probate may not have been granted. There may be a delay in emptying the home a beneficiary of say an item of furniture or sale of say a jukebox may take time/ not be wanted and an alternative disposal needed.

    2) It is usual for funeral to take place before original will available, also ultimately the executors do as they think fit. A letter expressing wishes is more usual, attached to the copy of the will which is either given to one or more executors before death or stored where they can find it on death.

    3) As long as executors distribute the estate in line with the will then how they divide up the contents "fairly" is up to them to agree. They can divide the task however they see fit- one could oversee the paperwork side of things, another disposal of possessions and as long as they agree what and how they are doing it is okay.

    So I will write a letter expressing my wishes, there have been incidents that caused me to want to guide our estate- in one case an Uncle held on to his mothers house contents almost shrine like until his death 16 years after hers, another 4 years after death and the house is not for sale and the opposite extreme, house contents disposed of within 3 weeks.

    We wanted dignified funeral, short period of reflection, disposal of belongings, house marketed and beneficiaries paid as soon as probate could be applied.

    We live and learn and the executors advised of our wishes but as we wont be here to see that I am not going to worry too much about it.
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 14th May 19, 11:32 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #8
    • 14th May 19, 11:32 PM
    • #8
    • 14th May 19, 11:32 PM
    2) It is usual for funeral to take place before original will available, also ultimately the executors do as they think fit. A letter expressing wishes is more usual, attached to the copy of the will which is either given to one or more executors before death or stored where they can find it on death.
    Originally posted by crv1963
    I don't know why that would be so. I know we picked up each of the wills I've executed once we'd got the death certificate, before we'd even arranged the funeral. And since that's where a preference for cremation was expressed, rather than in a letter of wishes, that was helpful (although we did have a copy at the house).
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats, 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself, multiple poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: ready to decrease / decreasing on all parts of the mohair cardigan pattern! but moved onto wrist warmers for friends at Christmas ...
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 15th May 19, 7:42 AM
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    Owain Moneysaver
    • #9
    • 15th May 19, 7:42 AM
    • #9
    • 15th May 19, 7:42 AM
    To look in our expression of wishes for items such as jewelry and a few other sentimental items we are not ready to part with yet,
    Originally posted by crv1963
    This cannot happen.

    An "expression of wishes" is not legally binding and will be over-ridden by the Will. If the Will says the estate is to be shared equally by 4 beneficiaries then that is what must happen.

    What happens if two people both want the same trinket? The executor cannot arbitrate between beneficiaries; the executor must follow the Will.

    If you want certain things to remain 'in the family' then you leave them to the surviving partner in trust to pass to the beneficiary.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 15th May 19, 11:46 AM
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    badmemory
    To get the funeral nearest to what you want (as they will be able to make some changes) why not actually buy your funeral. Not a funeral plan which is just about the money, but the actual funeral.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 15th May 19, 11:54 AM
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    Mojisola
    What happens if two people both want the same trinket? The executor cannot arbitrate between beneficiaries; the executor must follow the Will.
    Originally posted by Owain Moneysaver
    This only works if the family members are reasonable but we agreed that if more than one person wanted an item, we'd put names in a hat and let chance decide.

    As it turned out, it surprised me how we all wanted different things.
    • nom de plume
    • By nom de plume 16th May 19, 8:35 AM
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    nom de plume
    To get the funeral nearest to what you want (as they will be able to make some changes) why not actually buy your funeral. Not a funeral plan which is just about the money, but the actual funeral.
    Originally posted by badmemory

    This still only works if whoever takes on the task of arranging the funeral is aware of such an arrangement.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 16th May 19, 9:07 AM
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    TBagpuss
    I don't know why that would be so. I know we picked up each of the wills I've executed once we'd got the death certificate, before we'd even arranged the funeral. And since that's where a preference for cremation was expressed, rather than in a letter of wishes, that was helpful (although we did have a copy at the house).
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    There is no reason why you *can't* pick up a will very promptly, but often it is not the first thing on people's minds.
    A lot of people associate wills with money and feel that it is inappropriate or might appear greedy to rush to get the will, and for a lot of people, the way they process their grif menas that they don'tfeel able to start thinking about those sorts of practical issues until after the funeral.

    Of course, for others, being on top of all of the admin from day one and being as efficent as possible is a way of coping with the grief, so there is no right or wrong way, but it is very very common that people don't really start to think about the legal isues until the immeidate issues of the funeral are over.

    Also, executors may not always know where the will is, or indeed who the executors are, until after someone has made a start at looking through the deceased's house.

    Where executors don't live locally to where the person who died lived, or to where their will is held,there may also be delays in them making arrangmetns to collect a will, providing the necessary ID etc

    Obviosuly it depends a lot on circumstances, and if you talk to your executors and make sure that they know (at least in general terms) what you want and where to find more detailed information about your wishes, it helps them to do as you want.
    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 16th May 19, 9:09 AM
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    crv1963
    This still only works if whoever takes on the task of arranging the funeral is aware of such an arrangement.
    Originally posted by nom de plume
    I agree, so our plan is-

    1) Will- broad direction of our wishes, also aware that timings and exact distribution of possessions depends entirely on a) does someone actually want it? and b) the executors give them it. On the whole as the assets will be split evenly four ways in the end it is up to them.

    2) Letter expressing our wishes- making sure they are told verbally before the event and a letter is attached to the copies of our will.

    3) Funeral- clear instructions of our wishes, including music told verbally and in the letter expressing our wishes. We are looking into pre-paying for our funerals as well as being able to help plan it which if the executirs wanted to they could decide otherwise; we will relieve them of concern for where is the money coming from to pay for it.

    We feel that verbal instructions, written wishes and a will all may help guide but accept on death these may be varied by those left behind. If so we will not be here to argue and must accept it may happen. But we can't do much more so are not going to over worry about it!

    In these thoughts and discussions I have learnt that when the time comes, I have a clearer idea of what my Mother wants, wife wants and Uncle wants.

    We've approached this in a light-hearted way at a family level, so that each has been able to say what they do and do not really like.

    My and my wife real concern is not so much the sharing of our possessions but that someone (or two) left behind, may delay parting with things as they can return to our home to morbidly sit and reflect or cry for a period of time that can last for years, all the while the house sits dark and wasted.
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 16th May 19, 1:23 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    There is no reason why you *can't* pick up a will very promptly, but often it is not the first thing on people's minds.
    A lot of people associate wills with money and feel that it is inappropriate or might appear greedy to rush to get the will, and for a lot of people, the way they process their grif menas that they don'tfeel able to start thinking about those sorts of practical issues until after the funeral.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    Yes, that makes sense, and I know one of my siblings was slightly upset that we made a start on house clearance fairly rapidly (possibly even with indecent haste to some minds!), BUT they understood that a) there was a lot to do and b) another sibling wanted to help, but could only easily do so if we cracked on!

    In our case, it was at least partly a matter of practicality. The executors did not live locally to the deceased, but were there
    around the time of death. I knew (or had as much of an idea as one can ever have!) of what was in the will, as I'd been shown copies when they were drawn up, but it was good to be sure ...
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats, 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself, multiple poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: ready to decrease / decreasing on all parts of the mohair cardigan pattern! but moved onto wrist warmers for friends at Christmas ...
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 16th May 19, 4:17 PM
    • 30,986 Posts
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    Mojisola
    To get the funeral nearest to what you want (as they will be able to make some changes) why not actually buy your funeral. Not a funeral plan which is just about the money, but the actual funeral.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    That wasn't our experience.

    My parents specified what services they wanted and could have given a detailed plan of music and readings, etc, but preferred to leave that to us to choose.
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