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BW Legal/3D Parking – Directions Questionnaire stage
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BrokenSky
Posts: 30 Forumite
Hi all, first time poster here,
Last year my partner worked for a company in a business park, which didn’t have enough parking spaces for all the employees. Inside the employee car park, it was common to park along the road where there were no yellow lines or other markings. There was no signage saying where parking was or was not permitted.
There was also a field on the edge of the main parking area where people parked. For at least a year this was the status quo. My partner had a valid employee parking pass, but sometimes even would have to park in the overflow to get to the office.
Most days my partner arrived extremely early, just to get a space, but on two occasions was not able to park in a bay so on one day she parked in the field and on another parked along the side of the road. On the two days she parked outside of a bay there was nothing affixed to the car to say there had been a contravention. On most days there were probably fifty other cars parked similarly.
I received two different PCNs from 3D Parking several months after my partner parked in the overflow. It is my opinion that 3D took advantage of the fact that dozens of cars parked like this daily. By not putting a ticket on the car some people parked in the same way on multiple occasions. The company she worked for had emailed all staff showing where parking was permitted using a Google Earth picture and a highlighter. The overflow area was included in the permitted zone. There was no visible signage on site indicating any parking restrictions as it was assumed that the parking was for employees. The only sign on display was a ‘No Trespassers’ sign. One person received over 15 tickets and actually quit his job in protest.
When my partner went back to get photos they had put a chain across part of the field where parking was not permitted, but this was not clear from the satellite photo. My partner no longer has the email and had quit a few months after getting this ticket.
We moved house last year so there was a delay in getting the original PCNs from 3D Parking and letters from Trace Debt Recovery, which arrived in the autumn. After reading the MSE forums at the time I decided to ignore this correspondence and wait to see what happened. We received further letters from 3D Parking and BW Legal, which I also chose to ignore. Time will tell whether that was a foolish decision or not!
We received the Court Claim form in early July, which we acknowledged within the time frame. We have also submitted our defence on time, based on the templates provided by fellow posters on these boards, which we are grateful for. BW Legal have now responded saying that they wish to continue with the claim. We’ve received the DQ from the court, and have received BW Legal’s DQ in the post. We need to send ours to the court this week.
I think the DQ should be reasonably straightforward, but I have a few questions before I complete the form.
• The vehicle is registered in my name, but my partner was using the vehicle when these events occurred last year. Should I add her as an additional witness in D3 of the form, since she was actually at the site in question and I would like her to be there as backup?
• Once I have completed the DQ, can I submit it online via email to the ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk email address, or should this be posted to the St Katharine House address? Also, should I post copies to both BW Legal and 3D Parking?
I also hoped for your advice on our case in general:
• Is it too late to do a SAR from 3D Parking at this stage?
• BW Legal have added ‘legal fees’ of £60 each on top of the £100 for each PCN, so £120 of legal fees in total. Reading the forum I see that a previous case ‘F0DP201T’ under District Judge Taylor makes this an Abuse of Process. Is it too late to mention this in my witness statement, as unfortunately I wasn’t aware of this when we submitted our defence.
Many thanks in advance for your help. There seems to be so much knowledge among the users on this forum, it seems obvious to consult with you first so that BW Legal and 3D Parking don’t get away with this!
Last year my partner worked for a company in a business park, which didn’t have enough parking spaces for all the employees. Inside the employee car park, it was common to park along the road where there were no yellow lines or other markings. There was no signage saying where parking was or was not permitted.
There was also a field on the edge of the main parking area where people parked. For at least a year this was the status quo. My partner had a valid employee parking pass, but sometimes even would have to park in the overflow to get to the office.
Most days my partner arrived extremely early, just to get a space, but on two occasions was not able to park in a bay so on one day she parked in the field and on another parked along the side of the road. On the two days she parked outside of a bay there was nothing affixed to the car to say there had been a contravention. On most days there were probably fifty other cars parked similarly.
I received two different PCNs from 3D Parking several months after my partner parked in the overflow. It is my opinion that 3D took advantage of the fact that dozens of cars parked like this daily. By not putting a ticket on the car some people parked in the same way on multiple occasions. The company she worked for had emailed all staff showing where parking was permitted using a Google Earth picture and a highlighter. The overflow area was included in the permitted zone. There was no visible signage on site indicating any parking restrictions as it was assumed that the parking was for employees. The only sign on display was a ‘No Trespassers’ sign. One person received over 15 tickets and actually quit his job in protest.
When my partner went back to get photos they had put a chain across part of the field where parking was not permitted, but this was not clear from the satellite photo. My partner no longer has the email and had quit a few months after getting this ticket.
We moved house last year so there was a delay in getting the original PCNs from 3D Parking and letters from Trace Debt Recovery, which arrived in the autumn. After reading the MSE forums at the time I decided to ignore this correspondence and wait to see what happened. We received further letters from 3D Parking and BW Legal, which I also chose to ignore. Time will tell whether that was a foolish decision or not!
We received the Court Claim form in early July, which we acknowledged within the time frame. We have also submitted our defence on time, based on the templates provided by fellow posters on these boards, which we are grateful for. BW Legal have now responded saying that they wish to continue with the claim. We’ve received the DQ from the court, and have received BW Legal’s DQ in the post. We need to send ours to the court this week.
I think the DQ should be reasonably straightforward, but I have a few questions before I complete the form.
• The vehicle is registered in my name, but my partner was using the vehicle when these events occurred last year. Should I add her as an additional witness in D3 of the form, since she was actually at the site in question and I would like her to be there as backup?
• Once I have completed the DQ, can I submit it online via email to the ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk email address, or should this be posted to the St Katharine House address? Also, should I post copies to both BW Legal and 3D Parking?
I also hoped for your advice on our case in general:
• Is it too late to do a SAR from 3D Parking at this stage?
• BW Legal have added ‘legal fees’ of £60 each on top of the £100 for each PCN, so £120 of legal fees in total. Reading the forum I see that a previous case ‘F0DP201T’ under District Judge Taylor makes this an Abuse of Process. Is it too late to mention this in my witness statement, as unfortunately I wasn’t aware of this when we submitted our defence.
Many thanks in advance for your help. There seems to be so much knowledge among the users on this forum, it seems obvious to consult with you first so that BW Legal and 3D Parking don’t get away with this!
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Comments
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its never too late to do the SAR , but add a copy or scan of the V5C or N1 claim form as proof of ID under the GDPR , email it to the DPO at 3D tonight if possible
ADD THE NUMBER OF WITNESSES LIKELY TO ATTEND ON THE HEARING DATE
this is so they know if they need a large room or not, usually its two or three of you at most in a small room
add the abuse of process to your WS , see the thread by Beadyroller to get the gist (lower down the forum)
your WS plus your partners will be submitted much further in this process , in several months time , plus your Exhibits and your costs schedule too, as a bundle
email the DQ as an attachment same as everyone else, to the email address listed by KeithP in all his posts about it0 -
I'll just address these two points:
Send it by email to that CCBC address.Once I have completed the DQ, can I submit it online via email to the ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk email address, or should this be posted to the St Katharine House address? Also, should I post copies to both BW Legal and 3D Parking?
Send a copy to the Claimant - address on your Claim Form.
It is never too late to send a SAR to the parking company. The information returned may be useful at Witness Statement time.Is it too late to do a SAR from 3D Parking at this stage?0 -
Redx and KeithP, thanks for your responses.
I have a question about the SAR. 3D don't seem to have a DPO email address on their website. They only have an 'info@3dparking.co.uk' address. Should I email the request to this address, asking for it to be forwarded to their DPO? Or should I send it by post instead (or both)? I'm assuming that I should also send BW a letter informing them that I've sent their client a SAR?
Many thanks.0 -
they also do not appear to have any data protection information either , so I suspect they have failed the GDPR 2018 by not doing so, I cannot see anything about how they deal with personal data or how to rectify data errors etc, by their DPO , and the date on the website is 2016
I would try emailing the info address and ask for it to be passed to their DPO , possibly also sending a postal letter as well
I would also see what the ICO have to say about this lack of data protection advice and contacts etc on the 3D website too
you can let B W LEGAL know if you wish , although I doubt that they would be interested and would just file it
I cannot see anything on there about appealing a parking charge notice either , very , very amateur and may be in breach of the IPC CoP , some vetting that was0 -
Thank you for the information on the SAR. I will send this on to 3D in the post and follow up with an email.
I have now emailed the completed and signed DQ to the CCBC address and received their acknowledgement. My Claim Form has the Claimant as 3D, but immediately below gives BW Legal as the address for sending documents and payments. I was going to post a copy (by recorded delivery) of the completed DQ to BW, should I also post a copy to 3D?0 -
You send a copy of your completed DQ to the Claimant to the address in the box labelled "Address for sending documents and payments".I have now emailed the completed and signed DQ to the CCBC address and received their acknowledgement. My Claim Form has the Claimant as 3D, but immediately below gives BW Legal as the address for sending documents and payments. I was going to post a copy (by recorded delivery) of the completed DQ to BW, should I also post a copy to 3D?
Do not send it by any method that requires a signature. All that does is allow them to refuse to sign and hence refuse delivery.
Send it using Standard First Class Post getting a free Certificate of Posting from the Post Office counter.
It is deemed delivered two working days later.0 -
KeithP, thank you for the quick reply and the clear explanation. I hadn't realised using recorded delivery would just create more problems for me!0
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Plus there is no service called recorded delivery , it's called "signed for" , but you should follow the instructions by KeithP
A lot of these firms won't sign for anything , or use p o boxes that are not manned , so nobody to sign , proving failure to deliver0 -
Hi again,
I've now received a notice of allocation at my local court, and the hearing will be held in early February. I have been given 14 days prior to the hearing, (due in the course of next week) to deliver my WS and other documentation to the Court and BW Legal.
I will start pulling together over the next few days the documentation required from what I've read so far from previous relevant threads, and also on the sticky from Coupon_mad and bargepole. However, I do have two questions before I proceed.
Firstly, I've realised that we appealed the claims when we received them originally in late 2018. We were moving house back then, so when our appeal was rejected by 3D we didn't take further action until the LBCCC was received last year. Will this go against us at the hearing?
Secondly, I was the registered keeper of the vehicle, but not the driver at the time the incidents occurred. The incidents occurred at my partner's place of work. How best should I express this in my statement?
Thanks for your help.
PS: How paranoid should I be that the claimant or their lawyers are 'spying' on these MSE boards? I've read of one event that took place on PePiPoo, where the claimant was represented by BW. Does this happen often enough for me to be worried?0 -
No, and if the Judge is listening to that from their rep, you can counter it!Firstly, I've realised that we appealed the claims when we received them originally in late 2018. We were moving house back then, so when our appeal was rejected by 3D we didn't take further action until the LBCCC was received last year. Will this go against us at the hearing?
There was no obligation to engage or appeal, and not trying second stage can be said to be because 3D Parking are in the IPC AOS and they offer NO further appeal that is ever worth trying. 'IAS' is widely reported to be a kangaroo court, where the IPC member parking firms laugh that they let their consumer victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal:
https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/01/is-independent-appeal-service-kangaroo.html
You should be angry about that, if you had not read that blog before or seen the Watchdog programmes (more than one over the years) exposing the farce. There was never any fair appeal open to you with any IPC member. The slightly better POPLA (BPA AOS members only) was not on the table.
Firstly, check the Notice to Keeper against the POFA Schedule 4 paragraph 8 (if there was said to be a windscreen PCN) or para 9 (if it was a postal NTK only, say by remote ANPR camera).Secondly, I was the registered keeper of the vehicle, but not the driver at the time the incidents occurred. The incidents occurred at my partner's place of work. How best should I express this in my statement?
If the NTK was not a POFA compliant one in wording or timeline, then you will be saying that you were not driving and that this Claimant cannot hold a registered keeper liable under the applicable law - and then explain why.
You've not been posting here since October, so unless you've been keeping up with the forum (I hope you have) you've perhaps missed reading what happened in a case in Southampton in November, that you can use in your own case (read the thread by CEC16 - it is VERY important you understand what else you can throw at this now!).
And you may have also missed that we always now tell people to file & serve their costs schedule in advance, along with their WS, supplementary WS about the added £60, and the case law and maybe photos, that you plan to use in evidence.
Play catch up for a day or two on the forum, then show us your planned exhibits and your narrative WS, your costs schedule and your supplementary WS by reading ANY other claim thread that is past WS stage recently, plus the thread by CEC16 (no link, go find him in the members' list).
Not at all, no problem, especially as you were not the driver. Everything you have said here backs up your defence and WS and there is nothing to hide in your case; they will see it soon!How paranoid should I be that the claimant or their lawyers are 'spying' on these MSE boards? I've read of one event that took place on PePiPoo, where the claimant was represented by BW. Does this happen often enough for me to be worried?PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0
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