Is my Clean Break proposal fair?

Hi all,

I'm just looking for some outside perspective as I have some concerns about the fairness of our proposed settlement in our divorce. I have an over-inflated sense of responsibility and worry that I might actually be taking advantage of my ex here...

We've no property having rented the whole time, nor have any kids. So far so simple. Reason for divorce is mainly lies about debt on his part; I found out about a pending IVA ~£12k. He came to relationship with terrible finances and i helped him resolve, clear his ccjs etc. He has severe depression which results in him not taking a lot of unpaid time of either from work or losing his job. When he was working we earned roughly the same salary- £24-28K each. during the marriage any debt accrued was taken in my sole name because of his circumstances along with any real personal debt ~15K.

I'd started accruing a pension before we met, but he only started at my urging, so my pot is larger, 40k vs his 18K. In the last 18 mths I've also been saving into a LISA with the intention of buying a flat ASAP, which we both agreed to at the time and having since had pay rises.

On this basis, we've agreed that we both walk away with what we each have.

However, in the last 12 months before separating and in the time since, I've made some significant changes to my work and my salary is now substantially larger. I also know that since separating Ex is struggling to hold down work and isn't in a position to house himself permanently. I honestly doubt he will have taken legal advice, more likely a guy down the pub, or just guilt associated with his depression. So would walking away be fair? I think that it is given I've only been able to achieve what i have since we separated, but worried a judge might not agree...

Any thoughts?

Comments

  • Accountant_Kerry
    Accountant_Kerry Posts: 628
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    edited 14 November 2019 at 8:38AM
    This depends on lots of things.
    How long was the marriage being a very important one?
    What are you assets and liabilities and what is the % split of assets / liabilities you are actually proposing?

    Legally all the things you talk about are marriage assets so belong jointly to both of you.
    Mar 24 - Mortgage Balance £249,794.45
    Credit Card - £8,182.23 + £4,731.65
    Goals: Mortgage Free by 2035, Give up full time work once Mortgage Free, Ensure I have a pension income of £20k per year from 2035

  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863
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    I would also highlight that usually a court will require both parties to have obtained independent legal advice in order to "rubber stamp" any agreement they have come to between them.

    The purpose of this is so neither party is being taken advantage of and are fully aware of any potential claim they may be giving up.
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • cff850
    cff850 Posts: 4 Newbie
    edited 14 November 2019 at 12:18PM
    This depends on lots of things.
    How long was the marriage being a very important one?
    What are you assets and liabilities and what is the % split of assets / liabilities you are actually proposing?

    Legally all the things you talk about are marriage assets so belong jointly to both of you.

    Married for 8 years.
    Proposed split is, I keep all marriage & my own debt ~17k and my own pension & LISA ~40K (I already paid off about 6K of his debt on the way into the marriage).
    He keeps his own debt ~12K and his own pension ~18K.
    I'm also paying divorce fees, not pursuing for any costs etc.
    I would also highlight that usually a court will require both parties to have obtained independent legal advice in order to "rubber stamp" any agreement they have come to between them..
    What do I do if he won't/can't?
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863
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    A court may still uphold the agreement, or they may make their own order. No way to really tell. Make sure you select the option to have the financial side of things dealt with during proceedings (if you haven't already). We sometimes get posts on here from people who didn't realise the significance of it - that they remain financially obligated to their ex-spouse unless they have done this, even after divorce is finalised!

    I presume, given you've only been separated just under 3 years, that he's consenting to the divorce? I got that feeling from your post but you didn't explicitly say it as far as I can see. It may be that he feels guilty or is simply hiding from things (such is the effect of depression).

    Are you still on good terms with him? Or is there someone he would listen to that you could ask to have a word/support him through the divorce? Maybe make an appointment for him and/or accompany him to it?

    Financial troubles can also go hand in hand with mental health issues. Particularly in manic depressives/bipolar who have intense high and low episodes. They have very poor impulse control during highs which results in poor financial decisions and a lot of debt. I'll leave the internet diagnoses to Doctor Google, but a close friend/relative may be able to nudge him to a real doctor (if he isn't already seeking help that is).

    Really, its one of the hardest things with certain situations (such as depression, substance abusers/addicts or domestic abuse victims). They can admit there is a problem. You can try all sorts of methods to help them. But it needs to be them who actually take action. Very frustrating for their loved ones. Eventually they give up trying.
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • cff850 wrote: »
    Married for 8 years.
    Proposed split is, I keep all marriage & my own debt ~17k and my own pension & LISA ~40K (I already paid off about 6K of his debt on the way into the marriage).
    He keeps his own debt ~12K and his own pension ~18K.
    I'm also paying divorce fees, not pursuing for any costs etc.


    What do I do if he won't/can't?

    So in effect you get £23k and he gets £6K so roughly an 80/20 split in your favour. Anything you paid before and during the marriage is irrelevtant. This wouldnt be classed as a short marriage so the starting point would be 50/50 if the court were deciding.

    In a split so one sided in all likelihood the court will ask him to confirm he is totally happy with that and if he hasnt taken legal advice it will be harder to prove.
    Mar 24 - Mortgage Balance £249,794.45
    Credit Card - £8,182.23 + £4,731.65
    Goals: Mortgage Free by 2035, Give up full time work once Mortgage Free, Ensure I have a pension income of £20k per year from 2035

  • I'm also having problems with a clean break proposal. My husband and I separated 3 years ago and jointly own our council house which we bought for £14k. My ex was self employed so the mortgage came out of my salary, with remaining salary going to living costs. My ex income was low and unreliable. Under threat of redundancy I took a personal loan to pay off the mortgage which I cleared successfully. I also took home improvement loans to replace the kitchen, bathroom, and install double-glazing, replace external doors and install patio doors into the garden. Altogether I have paid £29k into the property itself. The property may be worth around £60-75k. We have yet to get it valued. As the property is mortgage free, my ex wants half the value of the house. Whilst I wouldnt normally object to 50/50 split, I dont feel this recognises the substantial financial investment I have made as I paid all the Bill's, especially when my ex was unable to work and we shared childcare at the time. We havent divorced as I'm currently renting whilst my ex lives in the marital home and cannot afford the divorce fee which my ex refuses to contribute to. I think it would be fair to get a valuation done, take off my own capital outlay and split whatever's left over. Does this seem a fair? My ex just wants to do a straight split.
  • Heather64 wrote: »
    I'm also having problems with a clean break proposal. My husband and I separated 3 years ago and jointly own our council house which we bought for £14k. My ex was self employed so the mortgage came out of my salary, with remaining salary going to living costs. My ex income was low and unreliable. Under threat of redundancy I took a personal loan to pay off the mortgage which I cleared successfully. I also took home improvement loans to replace the kitchen, bathroom, and install double-glazing, replace external doors and install patio doors into the garden. Altogether I have paid £29k into the property itself. The property may be worth around £60-75k. We have yet to get it valued. As the property is mortgage free, my ex wants half the value of the house. Whilst I wouldnt normally object to 50/50 split, I dont feel this recognises the substantial financial investment I have made as I paid all the Bill's, especially when my ex was unable to work and we shared childcare at the time. We havent divorced as I'm currently renting whilst my ex lives in the marital home and cannot afford the divorce fee which my ex refuses to contribute to. I think it would be fair to get a valuation done, take off my own capital outlay and split whatever's left over. Does this seem a fair? My ex just wants to do a straight split.

    Better to start your own thread than hijack someone else's thread.

    However when you are married all the income of both parties is counted as being a product of the marriage regardless of who earned it so 'your' financial investment was never really yours at all.

    If you go to court the starting point is 40/50 and it may go either way if you present a good enough case but given the low amount involved legal fees of £15k ish each would mean everyone is much worse off.

    In any way you need to get divorced before you do any of this, presuming you are in England any assets or debts you accrue now are still part of the marriage pot. the least of your worries here is the £550 court fee, you need to find this and get moving.

    Cost wise there is always the option of moving back into the family home, (appreciate this is not a good option) but the threat of it may get your husband moving.
    Mar 24 - Mortgage Balance £249,794.45
    Credit Card - £8,182.23 + £4,731.65
    Goals: Mortgage Free by 2035, Give up full time work once Mortgage Free, Ensure I have a pension income of £20k per year from 2035

  • TBagpuss
    TBagpuss Posts: 11,198
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    cff850 wrote: »
    Married for 8 years.
    Proposed split is, I keep all marriage & my own debt ~17k and my own pension & LISA ~40K (I already paid off about 6K of his debt on the way into the marriage).
    He keeps his own debt ~12K and his own pension ~18K.
    I'm also paying divorce fees, not pursuing for any costs etc.


    What do I do if he won't/can't?

    A court wont require him to get advice. If you have an agreement, you send the proposed order, with a 'statement of information' to the court, and the judge can either approve the order or ask for more information, they can't substitute a different order.
    On the statement of information there is a box for you to give any extra information. If you set out that you cleared £xx of debt accrued by your husband and that your increase in income occurred after the separation, a judge will be able to see that the proposed settlement may be unequal but it is not necessarily unfair - and while the order may be different to what a Judge would decide if you were asking them to do so, they do start by accepting that people are free to come to their own decisions and reach their own agreement.
    So, they may, if they were concerned enough, list the case for a 10 minute hearing so the Judge could satisfy herself that your ex understood the effect of the order, but they cant force him to see a lawyer.
    All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)
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