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What to do...

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  • Lolapops
    Lolapops Posts: 45 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    I have spent all day reading I just can’t make sense of it ��

    It’s just a few days old ..

    Particulars say

    The driver of vehicle...... with the ..... parked in breach of the terms of parking stipulated on the signage (the contract) at ....... on ..... this incurring a parking charge (the PCN ) the driver of the vehicle agreed to pay the PCN within 28days of issue (not sure why they say this) yet failed to do so
    The claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the defendant as the driver/keeper of this vehicle. Despite demands being made the defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability. The claimant claims £... for the contractual costs pursuant to the Contract and PCN terms and conditions , together with statutory interest of .... pursuant to s69 of county court act 1984 at 8% per annum continuing at 0.04p per day
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,628 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    edited 23 July 2019 at 11:06PM
    It’s just a few days old ..
    But Coupon-mad asked 'what is the Issue Date on the Claim Form'?

    the driver of the vehicle agreed to pay the PCN within 28days of issue (not sure why they say this) yet failed to do so
    They say that because they allege that the driver agreed to that term when they parked the car.
  • Lolapops
    Lolapops Posts: 45 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    Which is why I’m struggling to work out a defence.

    It’s from the 18th July
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,628 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Lolapops wrote: »
    It’s from the 18th July
    With a Claim Issue Date of 18th July, you have until Tuesday 6th August to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

    Having done the AoS, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 20th August 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's four weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
      Print your Defence.
    1. Sign it and date it.
    2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
    7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
  • Lolapops
    Lolapops Posts: 45 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    So are they supposed to have terms and conditions written somewhere ? And should they say that is is being monitored by CCTV ? And if not could that be a defence
    Or is a no parking sign enough
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,614 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Are you saying the sign actually said just the words 'NO PARKING'?

    Are you also saying you did this search? Sounds like you are searching wrong because this takes you DIRECTLY to hundreds of defence posts in date order:
    Search the forum for UKCPM defence true and copy a recent one, adding your facts. Defences are generally that simple!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Lolapops wrote: »
    And should they say that is is being monitored by CCTV ?

    And if not could that be a defence

    it is not normal to have CCTV constantly monitoring a car park or private road , the amount of storage for video data they would need would be huge (probably larger than GCHQ at Cheltenham)

    it is normal to either use ANPR cameras taking still picures, or a mobile person with a camera doing so at random intervals

    any use of ANPR cameras etc should be on the signs, as should terms and conditions etc

    the use of the IPC logo means they should adhere to the IPC CoP which also has rules (terms and conditions)
  • Lolapops
    Lolapops Posts: 45 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    hi all I've drafted a defence here goes...


    IN THE COUNTY COURT

    CLAIM No: xxx

    BETWEEN:

    xxx (Claimant)

    -and-

    xxx (Defendant)


    DEFENCE


    1. The Defendant was the registered keeper of vehicle registration number **** *** on the material date. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    1.1 Any breach is denied, and it is further denied that there was any agreement to pay the Claimant's £100 'Parking Charge Notice ('PCN')'

    2. The facts of the matter are that:

    a) The Defendant did not receive the original Parking Charge Notice from xxx and consequent letters through the post as had moved address and not yet updated V5 with DVLA.
    b) Once made aware the Defendant notified the DVLA of new address on xxx and new v5 and driving license were issued.
    c) The Defendant also emailed the parking companies’ data protection department to delete old address and update new one. It was also put in writing as requested.
    (d) The Defendant first received written communication from the Claimant, to the correct address, about the their claim on xxx and from a third party debt collector on xxx. Then nothing else until xxx and xxx giving 14 days for payment including added on charges before sending NI claim form from the County Court.
    e) County Court claim form was sent to The defendants old address and nothing else sent to The Defendants current address.

    3. The basis of the current claim is that the Defendant’s vehicle ‘did not have a valid permit displayed’

    3a. There is one post with a ‘no parking’ sign within the car park. The terms and conditions on this sign are only facing one way and therefore not seen when parked behind them as the vehicle in question is photographed.

    3b. There are no signs on entrance or anywhere else.

    3c. There are no visible signs that ANPR is in use.

    4. It is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. The font is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read them would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

    5. Even if the Claimant is relying on a purported contract flowing from the single sign at the location, such terms were not prominent and were never seen by the Defendant, failing Lord Denning's 'red hand rule'. Any signs were not 'adequate notice' of the claimed parking charge and nor did the Defendant know about, or agree to by conduct or otherwise, any 'relevant obligation' or 'relevant contract' (ref: the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4).!

    6. At the time of submission of this Defence, no information has been received from a SAR made by the Defendant to UK Car Park Management, submitted on the 27th July 2019.!

    4. Accordingly, it is denied that the Defendant breached any of the Claimant's purported contractual terms, whether express, implied, or by conduct.


    5. The Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant has not incurred £60 costs to pursue an alleged £100 debt. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, in Schedule 4, Para 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100.

    5a. CPR 44.3 (2) states: ''Where the amount of costs is to be assessed on the standard basis, the court will –
    (a) only allow costs which are proportionate to the matters in issue. Costs which are disproportionate in amount may be disallowed or reduced even if they were reasonably or necessarily incurred; and
    (b) resolve any doubt which it may have as to whether costs were reasonably and proportionately incurred or were reasonable and proportionate in amount in favour of the paying party.

    - Whilst quantified costs can be considered on a standard basis, this Claimant's purported costs are wholly disproportionate and do not stand up to scrutiny. In fact it is averred that the Claimant has not paid or incurred such damages/costs or 'legal fees' at all. Any debt collection letters were a standard feature of a low cost business model and are already counted within the parking charge itself.

    - The Parking Eye Ltd v Beavis case is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since that sum (£85 in Beavis) was held to already incorporate the minor costs of an automated private parking business model. There are no losses or damages caused by this business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that the alleged 'parking charge' itself is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover the cost of all letters.

    - Any purported 'legal costs' are also made up out of thin air. Given the fact that robo-claim solicitors and parking firms process tens of thousands of claims handled by an admin team or paralegals, the Defendant avers that no solicitor is likely to have supervised this current batch of cut & paste claims. The court is invited to note that no named Solicitor has signed the Particulars, in breach of Practice Direction 22, and rendering the statement of truth a nullity.

    - According to Ladak v DRC Locums UKEAT/0488/13/LA a Claimant can only recover the direct and provable costs of the time spent preparing the claim in a legal capacity, not any administration costs allegedly incurred by already remunerated administrative staff.

    - The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 (POFA) makes it clear that the will of Parliament regarding parking on private land is that the only sum potentially able to be recovered is the sum in any compliant 'Notice to Keeper' (and the ceiling for a 'parking charge', as set by the Trade Bodies and the DVLA, is £100). This also depends upon the Claimant fully complying with the statute, including 'adequate notice' of the parking charge and prescribed documents served in time/with mandatory wording. It is submitted the claimant has failed on all counts and the Claimant is well aware their artificially inflated claim, as pleaded, constitutes double recovery.

    - Judges have disallowed all added parking firm 'costs' in County courts up and down the Country. In Claim number F0DP201T on 10th June 2019, District Judge Taylor sitting at the County Court at Southampton, echoed an earlier General Judgment or Order of DJ Grand, who on 21st February 2019 sitting at the Newport (IOW) County Court, had struck out a parking firm claim. One was a BPA member serial Claimant (Britannia, using BW Legal's robo-claim model) and one an IPC member serial Claimant (UKCPM, using Gladstones' robo-claim model) yet the Order was identical in striking out both claims without a hearing:
    ''IT IS ORDERED THAT The claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in ParkingEye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''

    - In summary, the Claimant's particulars disclose no legal basis for the sum claimed and it is the Defendant's position that the poorly pleaded claim discloses no cause of action and no liability in law for any sum at all. The Claimant's vexatious conduct from the outset has been intimidating, misleading and indeed mendacious in terms of the added costs alleged.

    - There are several options available within the Courts' case management powers to prevent vexatious litigants pursuing a wide range of individuals for matters which are near-identical, with meritless claims and artificially inflated costs. The Defendant is of the view that private parking firms operate as vexatious litigants and that relief from sanctions should be refused.

    - The Court is invited to make an Order of its own initiative, dismissing this claim in its entirety and to allow such Defendant's costs as are permissible under Civil Procedure Rule 27.14 on the indemnity basis, taking judicial note of the wholly unreasonable conduct of this Claimant, not least due to the abuse of process in repeatedly attempting to claim fanciful costs which they are not entitled to recover.


    SOT: I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true.


    Name:

    Signature:

    Date:
  • yettoexist
    yettoexist Posts: 27 Forumite
    First Post
    edited 9 August 2019 at 4:15PM
    Please amend and update your defence with the below-quoted text to clarify.
    Order was identical in striking out both claims without a hearing:

    The defendant quotes from the case referred to: -
    ''IT IS ORDERED THAT The claim is struck out as an abuse of process.
    Le_Kirk wrote: »
    This is to ensure that the judge sees you are quoting from a previous case rather than issuing an order/instruction to the judge/court.
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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