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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Amy
    • By MSE Amy 23rd Apr 13, 6:21 PM
    • 28Posts
    • 36Thanks
    MSE Amy
    Small Claims Court guide
    • #1
    • 23rd Apr 13, 6:21 PM
    Small Claims Court guide 23rd Apr 13 at 6:21 PM

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
    Last edited by MSE Amy; 18-09-2015 at 11:08 AM.
Page 31
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 1st Dec 19, 7:54 AM
    • 3,588 Posts
    • 3,259 Thanks
    da_rule
    Hi guys, hopefully you are winning your cases..

    I bought used Pc monitor from company what has registered office in London. I did it online so it`s distance sale and I`m a consumer not a company who live in Scotland. I decided return item in 14 days and apply for refund money (660 pounds) but they refused to pay me money back because they said I returned faulty monitor. Is any chance to win with them and should I use "simply procedure" in Scotland where I live or "small claims" in England where they have an office.. Thanks.
    Originally posted by worph
    It will depend where the contract was formed. You’ll probably need to refer to their terms and conditions to see if the contract is deemed to be made in England or somewhere else. I’d be 99.9% sure that they’d be governed by the English courts, but always good to check as you don’t want you claim to be struck out because the court you file in doesn’t have jurisdiction to hear it.
    • enaid
    • By enaid 2nd Dec 19, 7:22 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    enaid
    Thanks , I have been reading about the costs and did find there were caps on the amount. I think the defendants solicitors was trying to scare me into backing off by making me aware of the costs and the fact they will ask the judge to award them if they win. Thanks again x
    • abw349
    • By abw349 10th Dec 19, 10:00 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    abw349
    is this for small claims?
    I am about to make a small claim application but I wonder if it is the best way.
    I invited a builder I knew (2 years) to look at a renovation job.
    he sent a kitchen planner (Benchmarx) and architect round to assess, layouts were sent as photos, I requested emails but didn't get one.
    he also came with the architect (paid for) and discussed opening up a wall.
    2 days later I was asked to pay for the kitchen as he was placing a 4 kitchen order and I would benefit from being part of the larger order.
    As I had known him a long time I trusted him and transferred the kitchen money to his wifes account, who also repeated the high-pressure technique and 4 kitchen order story.
    the job was booked for 3 months later - nov 18th
    1 month after the transfer (late sept), trouble started brewing, he went on another holiday and from the holiday he cancelled the job and said go get your money from the supplier when you are ready for the kitchen.
    I tried to carry on finalising the layout and establishing where the money was exactly, Benchmarx branch made the facts muddy and appear to act as a friend to the builder rather than a large firm with responsibility.
    end of November I raised a complaint with Benchmarx over their handling of the issue and sent my letter of intent to the builder.
    I had up to that point said I would accept a refund or credit in my name with Benchmarx.
    I was told I had actually paid a deposit, and they had no obligation to refund a penny and only goodwill existed, they would in goodwill allow me access to their account at Benchmarx.

    I am now hoping to appear in court asap.
    Does anyone think I have a good case, there is no contract but copies of messages cancelling job by the builder and money was transferred by BACS.
    He is threatening to counterclaim the purchase of materials and hire equipment
    the job was cancelled 7 weeks before the start date.

    Would anyone use a debt collector ( names came up when I search small claims)
    • AndyCHill
    • By AndyCHill 12th Dec 19, 6:50 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    AndyCHill
    B2B Claim
    I'm a director in a UK small business and want to claim from another business, can I use this route to deal with the issue or is this for personal consumer claims against businesses only
    • waamo
    • By waamo 12th Dec 19, 7:11 PM
    • 8,696 Posts
    • 12,132 Thanks
    waamo
    I'm a director in a UK small business and want to claim from another business, can I use this route to deal with the issue or is this for personal consumer claims against businesses only
    Originally posted by AndyCHill
    Anyone can use it.
    This space for hire.
    • sam1970
    • By sam1970 14th Dec 19, 8:05 PM
    • 1,123 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    sam1970
    taking builder to court
    I had a big house renovation job last year by a building firm but since they finished work we had nothing but problems (failing new central heating, water leaks from two new bathrooms, uneven tiled floors, problems with electric work). Builder refused to acknowledge problems or come back to repair.
    I reckon the cost of putting things right will be around 15-20 K (obviously i will get multiple quotes) so do you think MCOL is the appropriate route? I checked their website and you can file cases up to 100 K.
    I have independent reports condemning the electrical and the gas work so I feel in strong position. Actually I reported him to Health and Safety Executive and he ended with a big fine and prohibition notice and I feel that will strengthen my case at court...Or should I instruct a solicitor?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 14th Dec 19, 10:13 PM
    • 8,696 Posts
    • 12,132 Thanks
    waamo
    I had a big house renovation job last year by a building firm but since they finished work we had nothing but problems (failing new central heating, water leaks from two new bathrooms, uneven tiled floors, problems with electric work). Builder refused to acknowledge problems or come back to repair.
    I reckon the cost of putting things right will be around 15-20 K (obviously i will get multiple quotes) so do you think MCOL is the appropriate route? I checked their website and you can file cases up to 100 K.
    I have independent reports condemning the electrical and the gas work so I feel in strong position. Actually I reported him to Health and Safety Executive and he ended with a big fine and prohibition notice and I feel that will strengthen my case at court...Or should I instruct a solicitor?
    Originally posted by sam1970
    For a claim of that size instruct a solicitor. It isn't a small claim as it exceeds the value and doesn't sound a straightforward uncomplicated claim.

    When claims are heard on a different track to the small claim circuit costs are much more generous so, should you win, your solicitor costs may well be paid by the losing side.
    This space for hire.
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 14th Dec 19, 10:27 PM
    • 7,104 Posts
    • 19,947 Thanks
    Doc N
    I had a big house renovation job last year by a building firm but since they finished work we had nothing but problems (failing new central heating, water leaks from two new bathrooms, uneven tiled floors, problems with electric work). Builder refused to acknowledge problems or come back to repair.
    I reckon the cost of putting things right will be around 15-20 K (obviously i will get multiple quotes) so do you think MCOL is the appropriate route? I checked their website and you can file cases up to 100 K.
    I have independent reports condemning the electrical and the gas work so I feel in strong position. Actually I reported him to Health and Safety Executive and he ended with a big fine and prohibition notice and I feel that will strengthen my case at court...Or should I instruct a solicitor?
    Originally posted by sam1970
    I'd use a solicitor. But first check your home insurance to see if you have a legal expenses add on.
    • sam1970
    • By sam1970 15th Dec 19, 8:01 AM
    • 1,123 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    sam1970
    Thank you guys. I do have legal cover with my home insurance but not holding my breath. It tends to be worthless so Iam not even sure why I paid for it. 10 years ago me and my family got stuck in Paris when flights were cancelled due to volcanic ash. Air France refused to pay my expenses for the extra 7 days I spent in Paris plus my expensive travel cost to come back to UK via Eurostar (Business class). The legal advice I got from my home insurer solicitor was that the chances of wining were small (less than 51%) so they can not take the case on my policy but they were happy to take the case directly with me at a cost of £300 per hour which was mad considering that I was claiming £2500. I fought the case on my own, with help of Air transport users agency, including complaining to French aviation authority and ended a year later receiving an apology from Air France, all my costs plus compensation for my time (£3000 in total).
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 15th Dec 19, 8:08 AM
    • 7,104 Posts
    • 19,947 Thanks
    Doc N
    Thank you guys. I do have legal cover with my home insurance but not holding my breath. It tends to be worthless so Iam not even sure why I paid for it. 10 years ago me and my family got stuck in Paris when flights were cancelled due to volcanic ash. Air France refused to pay my expenses for the extra 7 days I spent in Paris plus my expensive travel cost to come back to UK via Eurostar (Business class). The legal advice I got from my home insurer solicitor was that the chances of wining were small (less than 51%) so they can not take the case on my policy but they were happy to take the case directly with me at a cost of £300 per hour which was mad considering that I was claiming £2500. I fought the case on my own, with help of Air transport users agency, including complaining to French aviation authority and ended a year later receiving an apology from Air France, all my costs plus compensation for my time (£3000 in total).
    Originally posted by sam1970
    The insurer wasn’t by any chance DAS was it?
    • sam1970
    • By sam1970 15th Dec 19, 11:33 AM
    • 1,123 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    sam1970
    To be honest cant remember as it is nearly 10 years now and I change my insurer every year to get a good deal. Anyway never heard of or used DAS before
    • sam1970
    • By sam1970 19th Dec 19, 6:49 PM
    • 1,123 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    sam1970
    As expected, the insurance company declined to take the case claiming the building work started before I took the policy eventhough the work continued after the policy started and the dispute started halfway through the policy. They suggested I approach their solicitor on private basis and they will be happy to help...stuff them. This is the second time I am having this so more no legal cover for me with home insurance..not worth any thing.
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 19th Dec 19, 6:53 PM
    • 7,104 Posts
    • 19,947 Thanks
    Doc N
    As expected, the insurance company declined to take the case claiming the building work started before I took the policy eventhough the work continued after the policy started and the dispute started halfway through the policy. They suggested I approach their solicitor on private basis and they will be happy to help...stuff them. This is the second time I am having this so more no legal cover for me with home insurance..not worth any thing.
    Originally posted by sam1970
    Sorry to hear that. It’s one of the downsides of switching this type of policy frequently though. OK for motor policies, but risky for home.
    • abw349
    • By abw349 22nd Dec 19, 6:26 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    abw349
    Do I attach all evidence or wait?
    I am about to post a claim to the county court money claim centre.
    I have some supporting evidence.
    copies of statements for evidence of paying
    Copies of messages where the builder canceled the job not me
    Do I include now or when I am allotted a court date

    thanks
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 22nd Dec 19, 7:38 PM
    • 8,675 Posts
    • 8,567 Thanks
    DoaM
    At the moment you make the claim and file the Particulars of Claim (i.e. the basis of the claim ... how much, why). Evidence comes later at Witness Statement stage.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Urbanangel
    • By Urbanangel 29th Dec 19, 1:24 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Urbanangel
    Ombudsman error
    I'm wondering if I can take action against an ombudsman? They have admitted that they made errors in their final judgement on my case but state that nothing can now be done about it. They were extremely delayed in reviewing it and non responsive to communications which subsequently left me out of pocket. (I had to lease a second car whilst contesting the issue with the first car)
    There seems to be no line of progressing this with them and so court seems like my only option.
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 29th Dec 19, 2:11 AM
    • 3,588 Posts
    • 3,259 Thanks
    da_rule
    I'm wondering if I can take action against an ombudsman? They have admitted that they made errors in their final judgement on my case but state that nothing can now be done about it. They were extremely delayed in reviewing it and non responsive to communications which subsequently left me out of pocket. (I had to lease a second car whilst contesting the issue with the first car)
    There seems to be no line of progressing this with them and so court seems like my only option.
    Originally posted by Urbanangel
    You can, but it’s likely to be judicial review rather than a money/debt claim.

    You’d first need to seek leave (permission) from the High Court to commence this. The application for leave is generally dealt with on the papers and only very rarely are costs awarded against you if you are unsuccessful (you do have to pay the court fee though).

    You’d need to prove either that the Ombudsman acted unlawfully and/or unreasonably (Google ‘Wednesbury unreasonableness’ for this) or that there was some sort of procedural impropriety. Even if you can prove this, there is a defence available where the Ombudsman can claim that, even if the wrongful conduct had not taken place, the decision would have been the same.

    Judicial review has very defined (and restrictive) time limits in which you must commence your claim with permission to extend these only being given in extremely rare circumstances (the general rule, in non-planning matters, is that the application for leave must be filed within 3 months of the decision you are challenging).

    If you opt for judicial review then you need to mindful that you are dealing with a very specialist area of law and you will be in the High Court. Therefore the cost consequences if you lose can be large (I have seen cost bills in the tens of thousands of pounds resulting from a half day judicial review hearing). As such, if you are looking to progress this, you should obtain legal advice.

    Something else to bare in mind is that judicial review is not a challenge to the decision itself, it’s a challenge to the way in which the decision was arrived at. Even if the decision is quashed, the Ombudsman may come to the same decision provided it ensures that it’s decision making is lawful the second time around.

    Also, judicial review is a discretionary power of the court. On reviewing the documents they may decide that, especially if you have delayed your application or acted unreasonably, to not interject. The remedies are also discretionary, so the court may find in your favour but decide that the original decision should still stand or simply decline to give a remedy.
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 29th Dec 19, 4:59 AM
    • 7,104 Posts
    • 19,947 Thanks
    Doc N
    Further to the last post, which I wouldn't disagree with in any way (and the Wednesbury unreasonable test is a complex one, quite apart from all the other issues, not the least of which is cost), it might just be worth asking your MP to take the issue up for you.

    Not a great chance of success, perhaps, but not at all time consuming, and no cost.
    • Benight
    • By Benight 29th Dec 19, 8:09 AM
    • 396 Posts
    • 171 Thanks
    Benight
    I'm wondering if I can take action against an ombudsman? They have admitted that they made errors in their final judgement on my case but state that nothing can now be done about it. They were extremely delayed in reviewing it and non responsive to communications which subsequently left me out of pocket. (I had to lease a second car whilst contesting the issue with the first car)
    There seems to be no line of progressing this with them and so court seems like my only option.
    Originally posted by Urbanangel
    You can complain to the ombudsman service themselves.
    I have found them to be very generous when they admit they have got things wrong.
    It's also free to complain.
    https://www.ombudsman-services.org/unhappy-with-our-service/customer-relations-form

    You must make your complaint within 6 months of the event you want to complain about, or within 6 months of finding out that you’ve a reason to complain.
    Complaints after this time are by exception only.
    • Urbanangel
    • By Urbanangel 30th Dec 19, 2:10 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Urbanangel
    Thank you for the responses.
    I think I'll stick to taking action against the original company rather than the ombudsman then.
    It appears that the ombudsman services complaint route only covers energy and communications so I'll have to research that a little more but am aware that regardless they have no powers to overturn any decisions made even if proven to be wrong.
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