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ozgi
Posts: 13 Forumite
Hello all
Question about a developer 'repurposing' an unadopted dirt track without permission here if you wouldn't mind:
Myself and 48 of my neighbours are currently fighting a war of attrition against a garden grabbing developer who have been trying unsuccessfully for 3 years to gain planning to build a small housing estate at the end of our peaceful 1930's suburban London cul de sac.
Effectively they wanted to bulldoze 2 1930's semis with very big gardens and build 25 new properties on the land.
Since early 2015 we have defeated 3 different applications & their relevant appeals, it's been heard before 2 Central government departments who both agreed with the objections and we have our MP on our side being very helpful - overall we have done a pretty good job so far of keeping them at bay.
One of the main points within their various plans that the council found objectionable is that demolishing this adjoining pair of original 1903's semi's would negatively affect the character of the road - in short it would look really stupid and out of place in a road that has no buildings other than 1930's bay fronted houses.
In what seems to be their last gasp attempt the developers latest planning application (number 4 now) involves retaining the 2 houses in question exactly as they are now but bulldozing their gardens to build a smaller development of 6 new homes with garages. The problem is there is no proprietary access to this currently-garden site if the 2 x 1930's houses out front are retained. Its completely encircled by other houses, gardens and a railway line.
The developers way of getting around this now is that they intend to tarmac a 20m strip of a very narrow (less than 4m wide), existing, unadopted, single lane dirt track access road next to one of the houses. The track is not owned by any property according to Land Registry, and has been used by all of the houses on that side of the cul de sac since 1930 for access to the rear of their houses since they were built! The track is frequently used by neighbours and there will be no question of it being disused or unnecessary etc.
I have verified that this road is not on the deeds of the property in question and Land Registry have not yet been able to tell me who does actually own it - if anyone. I expect the owner was the original (now long-gone) small time developer in the 1930's who bought the land off the local landowner, but did not include it in the deeds to any of the houses it built and sold. Goodness knows who owns the assets of this defunct entity now...
My question is this - are these garden grabbers now allowed to tarmac this unadopted track that we all use, and repurpose it as the sole access to a development of a 6 house estate in this way without actually owning it?
I'm not implying at this stage that they are claiming ownership or that they will stop the rest of us using the road afterwards, but can they just go ahead and temporarily shut it off for a few days / weeks in order to tarmac around 20 metres of it and then increase its usual daily traffic 30 to 40-fold?
Im looking for legal opinion / facts here, not so much opinions on the Planning aspects / arguments.
Many thanks in advance
Question about a developer 'repurposing' an unadopted dirt track without permission here if you wouldn't mind:
Myself and 48 of my neighbours are currently fighting a war of attrition against a garden grabbing developer who have been trying unsuccessfully for 3 years to gain planning to build a small housing estate at the end of our peaceful 1930's suburban London cul de sac.
Effectively they wanted to bulldoze 2 1930's semis with very big gardens and build 25 new properties on the land.
Since early 2015 we have defeated 3 different applications & their relevant appeals, it's been heard before 2 Central government departments who both agreed with the objections and we have our MP on our side being very helpful - overall we have done a pretty good job so far of keeping them at bay.
One of the main points within their various plans that the council found objectionable is that demolishing this adjoining pair of original 1903's semi's would negatively affect the character of the road - in short it would look really stupid and out of place in a road that has no buildings other than 1930's bay fronted houses.
In what seems to be their last gasp attempt the developers latest planning application (number 4 now) involves retaining the 2 houses in question exactly as they are now but bulldozing their gardens to build a smaller development of 6 new homes with garages. The problem is there is no proprietary access to this currently-garden site if the 2 x 1930's houses out front are retained. Its completely encircled by other houses, gardens and a railway line.
The developers way of getting around this now is that they intend to tarmac a 20m strip of a very narrow (less than 4m wide), existing, unadopted, single lane dirt track access road next to one of the houses. The track is not owned by any property according to Land Registry, and has been used by all of the houses on that side of the cul de sac since 1930 for access to the rear of their houses since they were built! The track is frequently used by neighbours and there will be no question of it being disused or unnecessary etc.
I have verified that this road is not on the deeds of the property in question and Land Registry have not yet been able to tell me who does actually own it - if anyone. I expect the owner was the original (now long-gone) small time developer in the 1930's who bought the land off the local landowner, but did not include it in the deeds to any of the houses it built and sold. Goodness knows who owns the assets of this defunct entity now...
My question is this - are these garden grabbers now allowed to tarmac this unadopted track that we all use, and repurpose it as the sole access to a development of a 6 house estate in this way without actually owning it?
I'm not implying at this stage that they are claiming ownership or that they will stop the rest of us using the road afterwards, but can they just go ahead and temporarily shut it off for a few days / weeks in order to tarmac around 20 metres of it and then increase its usual daily traffic 30 to 40-fold?
Im looking for legal opinion / facts here, not so much opinions on the Planning aspects / arguments.
Many thanks in advance
0
Comments
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Without a current land owned the only thing that can stop them is the Planning aspects - narrow access, lack of turning, parking, exit to the main highway, etc.0
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Have everbody checked their deeds to see if there is amything in them that would bear on the unadopted access?0
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Basic things like refuse lorries turning or accessing the new housesEx forum ambassador
Long term forum member0 -
As a starting point, can you do a Map Search of the area to check whether this piece of land has a title number? If it does, then download the deeds for it for details of the registered proprietor. If there is no title number, then it does sound like the road/pathway is unadopted, athough it may be that the houses which use this road to access their gardens have rights to pass and repass over this area by foot, but not by vehicular.0
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Ask the Local Authority to provide a highways plan for the area. It may be that although it is I adopted itnis still classified as public highway. The Local Authority in its role as a Highways Authority has vairous powers in relation to unadopted public highway, including carrying out improvement or repair works or authorising them to be done (by the developer for example).
Also, if the land isn!!!8217;t registered there is still an owner somewhere. It may be that the developer has identified the owner and is either purchasing the land or has come to an agreement. There are search companies and legal forms out there that specialise in locating owners of unregistered land.
As has been said, it might be worth checking the deeds of the properties that use this road to see what rights (if any) you have over the road.0 -
If you want legal advice you should pay for it.0
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As above, just because it's unregistered doesn't mean the developers haven't acquired it - and it would seem unlikely for them to take a chance.
In any event, I doubt you can stop them unless you're the owner of the land in question. As for temporarily being unable to use the road, even if you have access rights, I doubt that lets you veto the owner carrying out maintenance - it's got to be resurfaced some time, right?
(and for the avoidance of doubt, none of this is relevant in terms of planning objections etc)0 -
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/lorry-gets-stuck-trying-to-enter-windmill-lane-182641/Basic things like refuse lorries turning or accessing the new houses
"When Maidstone council's planning committee considered an application to build 10 homes off Windmill Lane in Hollingbourne at the end of April, villagers warned that the narrow, privately owned track was not suitable for heavy traffic...."0 -
Thanks to everyone else for their opinions.
There are no transactions as yet on Land Registry for the title to the road in question, but I will ask them to find a highways plan if such exists
The titles of the houses do not mention this service road sadly. I think it has simply been forgotten by the developers since they went bust
As far as planning goes - there are many and varied ways we can attack this particular part of the new proposal - width, its a tight blind turning, accidents will inevitably happen etc, but it was more whether there is any legal avenues to stop this access road being closed off and resurfaced given that it has been used by the original houses on a daily basis for many many years.0
This discussion has been closed.
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