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  • FIRST POST
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 17th Jun 19, 3:07 PM
    • 72Posts
    • 16Thanks
    ncfcfan
    Help with 3rd party without MOT
    • #1
    • 17th Jun 19, 3:07 PM
    Help with 3rd party without MOT 17th Jun 19 at 3:07 PM
    Hello.

    Early last week, I was involved in an RTC that wasn't my fault. Unfortunately, there were no witnesses or CCTV to this event.

    1hr after the incident, the other driver called me to say he had no valid MOT. He offered me money for repairs. I checked, and his MOT has indeed expired. I told him I wouldn't commit to anything on the phone. Unfortunately I didn't record this conversation. That was the last I heard from him.

    Late last week his insurers called me to hear my side of the story, as they couldn't get in touch with him. After I had given my side, they called me back 20 minutes later to say they would accept responsibility providing he didn't dispute the story.

    The latest update today (from my insurers) is that the other driver is now not accepting responsibility. My insurers have asked me for a diagram of what exactly happened, which I have provided today. I've been advised not to speak the 3rd party insurers again.

    The police, to my knowledge, don't know about his lack of MOT. Yet.

    Please do let me know what you think, and what I should do.
Page 3
    • harz99
    • By harz99 19th Jun 19, 11:07 PM
    • 2,889 Posts
    • 2,837 Thanks
    harz99
    No chance.

    I was in the inside lane going straight over a roundabout (as per the road markings). I indicated to come off and the vehicle on my outside cut across me.

    There is damage to the front of my car, corroborating these events.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    If I've understood you correctly, you were in lane 2 (right) and the TP in lane 1 (left). Is this correct?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Correct.

    However there were 3 lanes.

    1 going left only (1st exit) and two going straight over. There isn't a 3rd exit.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    Those statements of positioning don't add up to me, surely OP in centre of 3 lanes, the lane to the left of OP was to take first exit only, the centre lane (OPs), and the lane to the right of the OP both going straight ahead at 2nd exit, the 3rd party cut across the OP from the right not left.

    The only thing I think we don't know is whether there are still two lanes leaving the roundabout straight ahead where OP was intending to go, or was it a merge into one, which could have a bearing on the 3rd party move prior to the collision.
    Last edited by harz99; 19-06-2019 at 11:12 PM.
    • Scrapit
    • By Scrapit 20th Jun 19, 6:03 AM
    • 651 Posts
    • 244 Thanks
    Scrapit
    Better observation by the OP would have likely resulted in the accident being avoided. Wonder how their mot history reads?
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 20th Jun 19, 11:29 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    Good grief.

    I'm not sure where I said I was in the middle lane.

    I was on the inside lane (far right) going straight over. His car was outside me (middle lane) which also heads in the same direction as me. As I indicated to come off the roundabout, he decided not to come off there and go across me. Hence damage to my passenger side headlight and front bumper.
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 20th Jun 19, 11:30 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    Better observation by the OP would have likely resulted in the accident being avoided. Wonder how their mot history reads?
    Originally posted by Scrapit
    I'm not sure how you've got here.
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 20th Jun 19, 11:33 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    So you crossed from lane 2 into lane 1, and collided with the TP. Had you checked your mirrors? Were you signalling?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    No. I didn't leave my lane. I stayed in the inside lane, the whole way round the roundabout. There was no crossing of lanes from me.

    I don't know how we've got here. He cut across my lane, there's literally no debate.
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 20th Jun 19, 11:35 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    And had damage to the front of his car, suggesting the other car was more or less level when he did so.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    If our cars were level, then how have I go damage to the front bumper? I'm not following that at all.
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 20th Jun 19, 11:40 AM
    • 12,067 Posts
    • 6,820 Thanks
    DUTR
    Good grief.

    I'm not sure where I said I was in the middle lane.

    I was on the inside lane (far right) going straight over. His car was outside me (middle lane) which also heads in the same direction as me. As I indicated to come off the roundabout, he decided not to come off there and go across me. Hence damage to my passenger side headlight and front bumper.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    The post reads as if it was you that collided into the other driver now.
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 20th Jun 19, 11:51 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    The post reads as if it was you that collided into the other driver now.
    Originally posted by DUTR
    Nope. He strayed into my lane and collided with me.
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 20th Jun 19, 11:56 AM
    • 4,766 Posts
    • 2,827 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    Good grief.

    I'm not sure where I said I was in the middle lane.

    I was on the inside lane (far right) going straight over. His car was outside me (middle lane) which also heads in the same direction as me. As I indicated to come off the roundabout, he decided not to come off there and go across me. Hence damage to my passenger side headlight and front bumper.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    Arrrrr, you hit him then - you signaled and tried to come off the roundabout when it was not clear to do so - like wise he tried to travel around the roundabout when there was another car trying to exit.

    50/50 at best.
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 20th Jun 19, 12:06 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    I get the train of thought that leads someone to think that I hit him.

    He made the initial movement across my lane though.
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 20th Jun 19, 12:09 PM
    • 4,766 Posts
    • 2,827 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    I get the train of thought that leads someone to think that I hit him.

    He made the initial movement across my lane though.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    100% with you - without witness or dash cam from your car or car behind then its your word against his, or 50/50.

    I should re-phrase - you both collided with each other. I would never (if I couldn't avoid it) be in a position where I am side by side on a roundabout because of exactly this. You cannot prove its their fault even if it was.
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 20th Jun 19, 12:18 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    Food for thought. Thanks foxy-stoat.

    I've been under the impression this kind of collision would always be a non-fault deal, but I can see without concrete evidence, that it's not.

    I've given a really detailed account to the insurers. Hopefully the 3rd party just owns up and accepts responsibility.

    Many thanks for all your replies - helpful and not so helpful!!
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 20th Jun 19, 12:22 PM
    • 4,766 Posts
    • 2,827 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    I've been under the impression this kind of collision would always be a non-fault deal, but I can see without concrete evidence, that it's not.

    I've given a really detailed account to the insurers. Hopefully the 3rd party just owns up and accepts responsibility.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    Unfortunately without independent witnesses they will hold you responsible and your insurers will hold them responsible. If it went further without witnesses the judge will award 50/50 - both sides know this and that how it will go. They wont go further as it costs them money and they already know the outcome.
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 20th Jun 19, 12:23 PM
    • 12,067 Posts
    • 6,820 Thanks
    DUTR
    Nope. He strayed into my lane and collided with me.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    Listen , I'm not challenging, just trying to picture the set up..... if you were wanting to exit and the other vehicle was wishing to continue around the roundabout, then your vehicle is the one that has to change lanes.

    I'm not the arbitrator , but you can I hope see how your post reads.
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 20th Jun 19, 12:33 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    Listen , I'm not challenging, just trying to picture the set up..... if you were wanting to exit and the other vehicle was wishing to continue around the roundabout, then your vehicle is the one that has to change lanes.

    I'm not the arbitrator , but you can I hope see how your post reads.
    Originally posted by DUTR
    https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4809675,-1.7078715,3a,75y,64.17h,70.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV6zhfQgO8XRJvQ9e_zTLNQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

    If you can, take a look at the google maps link. Fingers crossed it takes you to the right place.

    I was in the inside lane, coming off at this exit. There is no lane change from me. He left his lane, cutting across me, as if to miss this exit entirely.
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 20th Jun 19, 12:40 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4809675,-1.7078715,3a,75y,64.17h,70.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV6zhfQgO8XRJvQ9e_zTLNQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

    If you can, take a look at the google maps link. Fingers crossed it takes you to the right place.

    I was in the inside lane, coming off at this exit. There is no lane change from me. He left his lane, cutting across me, as if to miss this exit entirely.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    For guidance, I was on the A446 heading northbound. Please do have a look at street view.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 20th Jun 19, 12:40 PM
    • 8,025 Posts
    • 3,314 Thanks
    almillar
    Posters saying OP may have crossed a lane seem to be picturing a standard roundabout with 2 lanes. I'd suggest that it might be a more specialised one.
    I'm picturing a roundabout with 3 lanes entering, left one goes left, middle one goes straight on ONLY, and right one goes straight on or right. Both cars entering at 6 o'clock on the clock face, and OP plans to exit at 12 o'clock. Other car's lane doesn't continue around the roundabout, and road markings take him off the roundabout at 12 o'clock. OP therefore does not cross lanes, but other driver does, as he crosses his 'straight on' lines, to go right.
    There are general rules for roundabouts, but so many new ones have specific markings and paths to take, that you do have to read the signs and paint on the road in advance.

    EDIT:
    And now after I type that OP links to the actual roundabout - the other driver definitely crossed lines, and it's only a 3 way roundabout - so the other driver wanted to go back the way he came. Other driver should have been in the outside lane, same as OP.

    OP - the lane you were in should be referred to as lane 3, or the outside lane. I understand that it's the 'inside' of the roundabout, but convention generally would call that the outside lane, as opposed to nearside, being beside the kerb, on a road.
    Last edited by almillar; 20-06-2019 at 12:44 PM.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 20th Jun 19, 12:42 PM
    • 4,717 Posts
    • 4,183 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    If our cars were level, then how have I go damage to the front bumper? I'm not following that at all.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan

    I was being generous seeing as you hadn't specified how far "front" the damage was. You now have.

    Seeing as the damage is your front light and bumper, that means he was actually ahead of you rather than level at the point you headed for the exit.

    It would be interesting to know where the damage was on his car....
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 20th Jun 19, 12:44 PM
    • 12,067 Posts
    • 6,820 Thanks
    DUTR
    For guidance, I was on the A446 heading northbound. Please do have a look at street view.
    Originally posted by ncfcfan
    A446 towards Lichfield?
    Then yes that makes it look clearer and one of those dodgy accident hotspots around the midlands like the M5 J4 roundabout similar incidents occur there
    • ncfcfan
    • By ncfcfan 20th Jun 19, 12:46 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ncfcfan
    I was being generous seeing as you hadn't specified how far "front" the damage was. You now have.

    Seeing as the damage is your front light and bumper, that means he was actually ahead of you rather than level at the point you headed for the exit.

    It would be interesting to know where the damage was on his car....
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    Only slightly ahead, about a cars length.

    Damage to his car was minimal, but mostly centred behind drivers side rear door.
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