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  • FIRST POST
    • benidorm59
    • By benidorm59 20th May 19, 6:19 PM
    • 152Posts
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    benidorm59
    Sdp
    • #1
    • 20th May 19, 6:19 PM
    Sdp 20th May 19 at 6:19 PM
    My friends daughter is in Residential Care and comes homes a few weeks a year to her mother. She has under lying entitlement to DLA mid care and its paid to her at a daily rate when she is home. CAB have told her her daughter should get SDP when she comes home they quoted her this
    DMG Volume 1, Paragraph 4 chapter 04558;
    Now ESA have refused it, and she is trying to find out the link to this guidance, what it means and does it apply to ESA Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 20th May 19, 6:31 PM
    • 5,278 Posts
    • 4,861 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #2
    • 20th May 19, 6:31 PM
    • #2
    • 20th May 19, 6:31 PM
    My friends daughter is in Residential Care and comes homes a few weeks a year to her mother. She has under lying entitlement to DLA mid care and its paid to her at a daily rate when she is home. CAB have told her her daughter should get SDP when she comes home they quoted her this
    DMG Volume 1, Paragraph 4 chapter 04558;
    Now ESA have refused it, and she is trying to find out the link to this guidance, what it means and does it apply to ESA Thanks in advance
    Originally posted by benidorm59
    Unless her mother claims a qualifying benefit such as PIP daily living, DLA mid/high rate care or Attendance Allowance then she's not classed as living alone when she's home with her mother, so won't qualify.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 20th May 19, 7:01 PM
    • 2,645 Posts
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    calcotti
    • #3
    • 20th May 19, 7:01 PM
    • #3
    • 20th May 19, 7:01 PM
    The guidance you refer to is here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/794831/dmgch04.pdf
    This is guidance on the rule that allows the DLA to be paid when she is with mother.

    As poppy says, she will not qualify for the SDP because she is not living alone, unless her mother also gets care part of DLA, daily living PIP or AA.
    • benidorm59
    • By benidorm59 20th May 19, 8:01 PM
    • 152 Posts
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    benidorm59
    • #4
    • 20th May 19, 8:01 PM
    • #4
    • 20th May 19, 8:01 PM
    In that guidance the example states if a person comes out pf Res Care for the weekend DLA is awarded, he stays with his mother who doesn't get Carers for him then he is entitled to SDP its so confusing I cant cut and paste the full esample
    • MarkN88
    • By MarkN88 20th May 19, 8:48 PM
    • 754 Posts
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    MarkN88
    • #5
    • 20th May 19, 8:48 PM
    • #5
    • 20th May 19, 8:48 PM
    In that guidance the example states if a person comes out pf Res Care for the weekend DLA is awarded, he stays with his mother who doesn't get Carers for him then he is entitled to SDP its so confusing I cant cut and paste the full esample
    Originally posted by benidorm59
    She isnt entitled to SDP because when she comes home for whatever period of time she is not living alone, or her mothers isnt claiming a qualifying benefit.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 20th May 19, 9:43 PM
    • 2,645 Posts
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    calcotti
    • #6
    • 20th May 19, 9:43 PM
    • #6
    • 20th May 19, 9:43 PM
    In that guidance the example states if a person comes out pf Res Care for the weekend DLA is awarded, he stays with his mother who doesn't get Carers for him then he is entitled to SDP its so confusing I cant cut and paste the full esample
    Originally posted by benidorm59
    I can see that you are correct that the example given does say that
    The claimant normally lives in a care home, and receives IS. He is entitled to the highest rate care component of DLA, which is not payable while he is in the care home. He regularly spends weekends with his mother(who does not get CA for caring for him), and DLA is paid for those days. The IS awarding decision can be superseded to award the SDP for the days when DLA is paid.
    I don't understand this as the SDP is normally only payable to people living alone or treated as living alone.

    I note that there is no reference to care breaks in the section on ESA which come later in the document.
    Last edited by calcotti; 20-05-2019 at 9:48 PM.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 20th May 19, 10:02 PM
    • 2,645 Posts
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    calcotti
    • #7
    • 20th May 19, 10:02 PM
    • #7
    • 20th May 19, 10:02 PM
    Thinking about this a bit more I can see there is an argument for payment of the SDP.

    If daughter normally reside with mother DLA would be paid but SDP could not be paid in ESA because she lives with a non-dependant.

    However daughter normally resides in the care home. She does not normally reside with mother, she is only there temporarily. She cannot be paid SDP while in the care home because the DLA is not in payment. However if DLA is in payment while at mother’s SDP could be payable in the ESA for those weeks because daughter does not normally reside with mother.

    Relevant guidance is here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/794990/dmgch44.pdf

    See paragraph 44113, 44125 and 44126.
    Last edited by calcotti; 20-05-2019 at 10:06 PM.
    • Bananas123
    • By Bananas123 21st May 19, 4:12 AM
    • 312 Posts
    • 137 Thanks
    Bananas123
    • #8
    • 21st May 19, 4:12 AM
    • #8
    • 21st May 19, 4:12 AM
    you don't get SDP if you have a carer...
    sdp is for a persons disability (clue is in the name);as they are being cared for; ("incapable of caring for self"), then the money is rightfully awarded to the person providing the care... ...
    you can't pick and choose your status - "please can i have money for caring for myself in addition to being cared for" ?.
    how about "NO"
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 21st May 19, 4:53 AM
    • 2,645 Posts
    • 1,768 Thanks
    calcotti
    • #9
    • 21st May 19, 4:53 AM
    • #9
    • 21st May 19, 4:53 AM
    you don't get SDP if you have a carer...
    sdp is for a persons disability (clue is in the name);as they are being cared for; ("incapable of caring for self"), then the money is rightfully awarded to the person providing the care... ...
    you can't pick and choose your status - "please can i have money for caring for myself in addition to being cared for" ?.
    how about "NO"
    Originally posted by Bananas123
    See the guidance quoted at post 6 for why this logic may be wrong in these circumstances. The rules for SDP in ESA are the same as in IS so this guidance should be applicable.
    • Bananas123
    • By Bananas123 21st May 19, 5:30 AM
    • 312 Posts
    • 137 Thanks
    Bananas123
    instead - how about you read it ?
    I note that there is no reference to care breaks in the section on ESA which come later in the document.
    Originally posted by calcotti
    Paragraph 4 chapter 04558; PEROIDS OF LESS THAN 1 WEEK OUTSIDE CAREHOME... the claimaint is PRECLUDED FROM SDP.


    ...nothing wrong with my logic.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 21st May 19, 5:49 AM
    • 2,645 Posts
    • 1,768 Thanks
    calcotti
    instead - how about you read it ?

    Paragraph 4 chapter 04558; PEROIDS OF LESS THAN 1 WEEK OUTSIDE CAREHOME... the claimaint is PRECLUDED FROM SDP.

    ...nothing wrong with my logic.
    Originally posted by Bananas123
    We donít know whether the stays are for more or less than a week as OP hasnít told us.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 21st May 19, 5:49 AM
    • 5,278 Posts
    • 4,861 Thanks
    poppy12345
    you don't get SDP if you have a carer...
    sdp is for a persons disability (clue is in the name);as they are being cared for; ("incapable of caring for self"), then the money is rightfully awarded to the person providing the care... ...
    you can't pick and choose your status - "please can i have money for caring for myself in addition to being cared for" ?.
    how about "NO"
    Originally posted by Bananas123
    That's not correct. SDP is awarded because the disabled person lives alone, or is classed as living alone. It's not awarded because the person is incapable of caring for their self.



    I live with my 18 year old daughter, who claims PIP herself. I claim PIP myself and claim the SDP on top of my ESA, no one cares for me, i have to do it myself because i have no one else to do it...
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 21st May 19, 6:10 AM
    • 5,278 Posts
    • 4,861 Thanks
    poppy12345
    exactly; the person we are talking about is not yourself and DOESN'T live alone; they are being CARED for.
    Originally posted by Bananas123
    That will make no difference, if the person's mother isn't claiming Carers Allowance for looking after them then they are entitled to the SDP.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 21st May 19, 6:23 AM
    • 2,645 Posts
    • 1,768 Thanks
    calcotti
    OP, if your friend wants to challenge the DWP decision they need to request a Mandatory Reconsideration. I suggest they refer to the guidance including the one in your initial post even though that refers to IS.
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/problems-with-benefits-and-tax-credits/challenging-a-benefit-decision/challenging-a-dwp-benefit-decision-on-or-after-28-october-2013/challenging-a-benefit-or-tax-credit-decision-asking-for-a-reconsideration/. The guidance does suggest that it may be possible to get the SDP while she is at her mother’s on the grounds that she is only there temporarily whilst normally residing in the care home provided that the stays at her mother’s are less than one week at a time.

    Obviously as this only applies to a few weeks a year the sum of money involved is not great but I can imagine there are extra costs involved in those weeks when daughter is with mother so any extra would help.

    Note that if successful she may be able to get arrears for past stays provided she can evidence them.
    Last edited by calcotti; 21-05-2019 at 6:45 AM.
    • Bananas123
    • By Bananas123 21st May 19, 6:30 AM
    • 312 Posts
    • 137 Thanks
    Bananas123
    That will make no difference, if the person's mother isn't claiming Carers Allowance for looking after them then they are entitled to the SDP.
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    ...only if they live alone (the person is being cared for in a home) - you get SDP because your daughter in an adult non-dependant and you are classed as being "single".....
    Being cared for and claiming carers Allowance is two different things
    Originally posted by _shel
    yes.... but you can't have BOTH (see post #8)
    -if somebody is ALREADY BEING CARED FOR (in addition to being provided accommdation...) then; that person is catered for / done.
    - another (additional person (i.e. "mother") isn't going to get money because "they also want to care for them"..... (because that makes them either 1) a complete idiot or 2) a benefit fraud...) and the person in question is PRECLUDED from SDP due to residing in a care home.
    Last edited by Bananas123; 21-05-2019 at 7:38 AM. Reason: being less rude
    • benidorm59
    • By benidorm59 21st May 19, 6:28 PM
    • 152 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    benidorm59
    You can claim DLA/PIP at daily rate eg for a few days if you come out of a care home for the week end etc if you have under lining entitlement to it of course and SDP can be paid daily in these circumstances its just that the guidance mustn't have been clear to the processor, now with this help and clarification we can put a MR in thanks to Calcotti and Poppy the person is entitled to the premium so should be paid
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