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  • FIRST POST
    • Sarah1212
    • By Sarah1212 20th May 19, 6:13 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Sarah1212
    ESA Tribunal Happening next month
    • #1
    • 20th May 19, 6:13 PM
    ESA Tribunal Happening next month 20th May 19 at 6:13 PM
    I found out today that my Tribunal hearing for my ESA appeal has been scheduled now for next month which is 13 months to the day of my ESA being stopped.

    I'm really worried about it. I don't really know what to expect and after the assessment I had last year I'm terrified of them rejecting my appeal and being left with no money.

    I have a lot of problems with depression and anxiety and I think that is part of the reason why I had difficulty in the last assessment. I found it really difficult to explain things to the assessor because I'd lose the words or my mind would just go blank, and would struggle to get anything across.

    I'm thinking of writing like a letter explaining how it effects me and all the problems it causes/has caused which I can give to the people at the tribunal to make sure I don't miss things out or struggle to get the words out, but I don't know if that's allowed? It's a lot easier for me to write things down than it is to explain them when I'm already really anxious and sat in front of complete strangers looking for a reason to take away the only source of income I have and am capable of.

    I'm wondering if anyone can offer advise about how I can prepare and what to expect? It'd put my mind at rest a bit if I could at least prepare for it

    Thanks,
    Sarah
Page 1
    • Lanzarote1938
    • By Lanzarote1938 20th May 19, 6:17 PM
    • 528 Posts
    • 1,380 Thanks
    Lanzarote1938
    • #2
    • 20th May 19, 6:17 PM
    • #2
    • 20th May 19, 6:17 PM
    could you make youself some cue cards so you know what you want to mention?
    • Sarah1212
    • By Sarah1212 20th May 19, 6:20 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Sarah1212
    • #3
    • 20th May 19, 6:20 PM
    • #3
    • 20th May 19, 6:20 PM
    could you make youself some cue cards so you know what you want to mention?
    Originally posted by Lanzarote1938
    I tried that last time (Made a list of things), but found that I got to the end of the assessment and there were things that weren't discussed and when i tried talk about it I just stumbled it all trying to explain it
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 20th May 19, 6:34 PM
    • 5,222 Posts
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    poppy12345
    • #4
    • 20th May 19, 6:34 PM
    • #4
    • 20th May 19, 6:34 PM
    I tried that last time (Made a list of things), but found that I got to the end of the assessment and there were things that weren't discussed and when i tried talk about it I just stumbled it all trying to explain it
    Originally posted by Sarah1212
    This isn't an assessment it's a Tribunal, which is different.


    OP yes you should write how your conditions affect you but you really need to make sure that you send it to HMCTS for them to receive it no later than 10 days before the hearing date.


    Taking it with you on the day is risky because they may not have time to read it and your hearing could be adjourned if this happens.



    Do you have anyone that can go with you to the hearing?
    • Sarah1212
    • By Sarah1212 20th May 19, 6:43 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Sarah1212
    • #5
    • 20th May 19, 6:43 PM
    • #5
    • 20th May 19, 6:43 PM
    This isn't an assessment it's a Tribunal, which is different.


    OP yes you should write how your conditions affect you but you really need to make sure that you send it to HMCTS for them to receive it no later than 10 days before the hearing date.


    Taking it with you on the day is risky because they may not have time to read it and your hearing could be adjourned if this happens.



    Do you have anyone that can go with you to the hearing?
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    My mum will be taking me there since I'd not be able to get there on my own.

    When I was getting help from a benefits adviser with doing the tribunal paperwork, I got a letter from my dr which he advised to just take with me when I go for the tribunal. Should I have sent it in instead? I've had the letter sitting in a draw for almost a year now waiting for the tribunal.

    I'll also try write up the letter this week and get it posted to them and maybe take a copy with me to read or show them when I'm there.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 20th May 19, 7:47 PM
    • 3,109 Posts
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    Alice Holt
    • #6
    • 20th May 19, 7:47 PM
    • #6
    • 20th May 19, 7:47 PM
    This relates to PIP, but the process is the same for ESA:
    https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

    The section about what happens on the day may help you.

    If it hasn't been done already, it's worth sending a statement to the Tribunal Service setting out what activities, descriptors and points apply to get you to an award. If the GP's note supports this then attach it to your statement. An example of a statement is shown in the guide (but of course relating to PIP not ESA).

    ESA descriptors:
    http://www.mybenefitsandwork.co.uk/med2/indexxx.php

    Benefits & Work also have an ESA appeal guide but membership costs c,£20.

    I would also suggest you prepare a diary / notes to take with you to the tribunal so you can give the panel more information / examples around the ESA descriptors you have identified in your statement.

    Be aware that as the tribunal are reviewing the DWP decision not to award the benefit, they will be considering your condition and abilities at the date of that DWP decision (not on the day of the hearing).
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 20th May 19, 7:49 PM
    • 5,222 Posts
    • 4,813 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #7
    • 20th May 19, 7:49 PM
    • #7
    • 20th May 19, 7:49 PM

    I would also suggest you prepare a diary / notes to take with you to the tribunal so you can give the panel more information /examples around the ESA descriptors you have identified in your statement.
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    Wouldn't it not be better to send this to the Tribunal before the day of the hearing?
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 20th May 19, 8:57 PM
    • 3,109 Posts
    • 3,586 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #8
    • 20th May 19, 8:57 PM
    • #8
    • 20th May 19, 8:57 PM
    Wouldn't it not be better to send this to the Tribunal before the day of the hearing?
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    The idea behind this is that the statement already sent to the TS sets out what descriptors should apply and why (with brief examples) . It is then likely that the panel will focus on these ESA activities when asking the claimant questions about their day-to-day life .

    The notes / diary then act as an aide memoire for the claimant, and enables them to expand on the points made in the statement and give the tribunal more examples around the relevant descriptors. It also enables the claimant to explain the variability / reliability issues more clearly to the panel - by perhaps telling the panel about a typical week / month.

    Because it is for the claimants own use, it doesn't have to be very neat / formal - just to help them give a full picture during their verbal evidence, and build on the written statement / evidence already submitted.


    But, sometimes these examples can be also be covered by a carer's / family members written evidence supplied to the tribunal - they can set out what care needs / help / difficulties the claimant has, and how they help, etc by giving examples.

    It's really an attempt to stack up all the evidence - written, and verbal - to give a clear and full picture to the tribunal panel on which the panel can then make their decision.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • Bananas123
    • By Bananas123 21st May 19, 4:23 AM
    • 312 Posts
    • 137 Thanks
    Bananas123
    • #9
    • 21st May 19, 4:23 AM
    • #9
    • 21st May 19, 4:23 AM
    Should I have sent it in instead?
    Originally posted by Sarah1212
    yes; you are supposed to send them everything you want them to look at, as they look at the documents prior to calling you in (you still have ample time).
    tribunals are much better then the assessments (ime), they are judges.... whearas the HCP's can be non-practicing physiotherapists after a quick paycheck etc.
    • Blaqswan
    • By Blaqswan 30th May 19, 12:48 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Blaqswan
    DWP - make thier own laws clearly.
    Sorry to appear to be hijacking your feed, but I am unable to start a thread for some reason.

    Mentally prepare yourself for the DWP rep to try and rattle your cage. The 1 I had tried to get the judge to state the hearing was under caution 😥 to which the judge quickly reminded him where he was.

    Go through the DWP paperwork and highlight the things you want to highlight to the judge. Just remember to breath and listen and anything you don't understand ask for clarity.

    My tribunal hearing was adjourned to allow more time to submit supporting info / evidance - so dont panic. Judges are far more understanding of your MH than DWP are. The Judge will ask if you have any information with you that you will be relying on in the hearing, you can then provide it. If it's alot of info they may adjourn the hearing so they can review it.

    My case has been adjourned to give me the opportunity to request and provide more information to support my case and to allow the DWP to clarify some serious errors in thier paperwork:
    - someone elses NINO on the main piece of evidance that they can't explain and are trying to blame on the HMRC.
    - they also have jobs that i had never done and witness statements confirming, which would suggest that I am capable of being in 2 different places at the same time but no payslips from either jobs.

    It is now time for my final part of the hearing and the DWP has not provided any alternative information and states it stands by the evidance initially provided. My question is this - Can / Will the Tribunal accept the DWPs evidance even though it is flawed in the sense that someone elses information included? (the person that the NINO belongs to is not connected to me in anyway) - any thoughts?
    • 45002
    • By 45002 30th May 19, 12:56 AM
    • 502 Posts
    • 467 Thanks
    45002
    Click on link to start new thread
    but I am unable to start a thread for some reason.
    by Blaqswan

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=139






    ..
    ....................
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 30th May 19, 5:17 AM
    • 2,594 Posts
    • 1,739 Thanks
    calcotti
    Can / Will the Tribunal accept the DWPs evidance even though it is flawed in the sense that someone elses information included? (the person that the NINO belongs to is not connected to me in anyway) - any thoughts?
    Originally posted by Blaqswan
    It will be up to the tribunal to decide what credence (if any) to give the evidence - that's their job.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 30th May 19, 9:30 AM
    • 3,109 Posts
    • 3,586 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    My case has been adjourned to give me the opportunity to request and provide more information to support my case and to allow the DWP to clarify some serious errors in thier paperwork...
    It is now time for my final part of the hearing and the DWP has not provided any alternative information and states it stands by the evidance initially provided. My question is this - Can / Will the Tribunal accept the DWPs evidance even though it is flawed in the sense that someone elses information included? (the person that the NINO belongs to is not connected to me in anyway) - any thoughts?
    Originally posted by Blaqswan
    It's not a case of the tribunal "accepting" evidence or not. The panel have to consider all the evidence placed in front of them (including your verbal evidence). How much credence they attach to that evidence though, is a different matter.
    The panel have to justify their decision in law. They may be asked for a Statement of Reasons (SoR), which sets out (amongst other things) why they have preferred one set of evidence to another in coming to their decision. If they find some of the evidence to be flawed / not credible, they will state this in the SoR.

    Sending the DWP a Direction Notice asking them for clarification, implies that the panel are not happy with the evidence they have from them. If you have complied with the Direction Notice by supplying the tribunal with the further evidence requested, but the DWP have not - then the DWP case is likely to be weakened.
    In general tribunal judges are not best pleased when their Direction Notices are ignored.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • wild666
    • By wild666 30th May 19, 10:02 AM
    • 315 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    wild666
    Watch out for questions like "Can you do it now?" I was asked that at my tribunal in 2008 and I replied WTF has got to do with the f*cking day of the assessment? and since then I have been at war with the DWP and tribunal services. I lost that case, my own, but the DWP don't like me as I have attended tribunals for friends and the DWP might omit some of the additional evidence sent in by the claimant. 3 tribunals I attended have had evidence sent in with the original claim omitted from the tribunal bundle and the claimant as won their case when the bundle the claimant showed was all numbered and the tribunal adjourned to ask the DWP for the missing evidence and when they didn't get it they found in the claimants favour.
    Someone please tell me what money is
    • tboo
    • By tboo 30th May 19, 1:50 PM
    • 897 Posts
    • 4,540 Thanks
    tboo
    Watch out for questions like "Can you do it now?" I was asked that at my tribunal in 2008 and I replied WTF has got to do with the f*cking day of the assessment? and since then I have been at war with the DWP and tribunal services. I lost that case, my own, but the DWP don't like me as I have attended tribunals for friends and the DWP might omit some of the additional evidence sent in by the claimant. 3 tribunals I attended have had evidence sent in with the original claim omitted from the tribunal bundle and the claimant as won their case when the bundle the claimant showed was all numbered and the tribunal adjourned to ask the DWP for the missing evidence and when they didn't get it they found in the claimants favour.
    Originally posted by wild666



    Well I can image why the DWP don't like you if you're that rude at a tribunal , I wonder what you're like in normal settings
    Started on the No Clutter thread - 25/01/2018
    “You’re only here for a short visit. Don’t hurry, don't worry and be sure to smell the flowers along the way.” —Walter Hagen
    Mortgage free 2/07/18. 9 years early

    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 30th May 19, 4:59 PM
    • 3,109 Posts
    • 3,586 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    Watch out for questions like "Can you do it now?" I was asked that at my tribunal in 2008 and I replied WTF has got to do with the f*cking day of the assessment? and since then I have been at war with the DWP and tribunal services. I lost that case, my own, but the DWP don't like me as I have attended tribunals for friends and the DWP might omit some of the additional evidence sent in by the claimant. 3 tribunals I attended have had evidence sent in with the original claim omitted from the tribunal bundle and the claimant as won their case when the bundle the claimant showed was all numbered and the tribunal adjourned to ask the DWP for the missing evidence and when they didn't get it they found in the claimants favour.
    Originally posted by wild666
    It is pointless "being at war with the Tribunal Service".
    The TS are independent of the DWP. Their job is to check if the DWP's decision was incorrect, using the evidence supplied by both parties to the dispute. The appellant's verbal evidence is very important. Swearing at panel members and not answering their questions is really not going to help,

    Your point about "DWP [omitting] some of the additional evidence sent in by the claimant", shows a misunderstanding of the appeal process.
    The appellant should have sent any tribunal submission / medical evidence / any additional supporting evidence not included in the DWP bundle directly to the Tribunal Service (not the DWP).
    The TS then send this on to both parties, the appellants representative, and the tribunal panel.

    A sensible appellant submits his statement after receipt of the DWP evidence bundle, and uses these papers to build their case and explain why the DWP decision is flawed (including submitting any additional evidence not in the DWP papers).
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
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