Is it late?

2

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  • Dox
    Dox Posts: 3,116 Forumite
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    lisyloo wrote: »
    It's salary sacrifice.
    It all arrives as a single payment (gross salary +13.8% employers NI + employers contribution)
    If it's salary sacrifice, it isn't a deduction from your pay, so the deadlines of 19/22 of the following month don't apply.

    The Regulator gives the following guidance to employers: 'You may pay your own contributions to the scheme on any date you have agreed with the scheme provider or trustees, but in practice it makes it easier if you pay them on the same date as your worker contributions.'

    So no, not late.
  • lisyloo
    lisyloo Posts: 29,614 Forumite
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    Thanks that's exactly the kind of non-obvius subtlety that I was looking for.
    So a sacrifice isn't a deduction ?????
    and they can pay it when they like ???

    Is there a reference for that interpretation as it's certainly not obvious to me.

    Thanks
  • Dox
    Dox Posts: 3,116 Forumite
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    Salary sacrifice is just that: you give up your contractual entitlement to part of your salary in exchange for some sort of benefit - in this case, the employer undertakes to pay pension contributions instead of salary. Therefore the pension contribution made by the employer is not a deduction from the salary to which you are contractually entitled and is not covered by the time limits for 'pension contributions deducted from pay'.

    Subtle, yes. Logical, also yes (but only when you stop and think it through fairly carefully).
  • lisyloo
    lisyloo Posts: 29,614 Forumite
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    Thanks for the info.
    Can you confirm where this interpretation has come from please.
    Is it something you've encountered as part of your profession or your own interpretation?

    We were promised as part of the TUPE process that there would be no detriment to our pension, so I have requested a response from HR.
  • Brynsam
    Brynsam Posts: 3,643 Forumite
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    lisyloo wrote: »
    Thanks for the info.
    Can you confirm where this interpretation has come from please.
    Is it something you've encountered as part of your profession or your own interpretation?

    We were promised as part of the TUPE process that there would be no detriment to our pension, so I have requested a response from HR.

    Your SIPP is with HL - look no further than their site if you need confirmation: http://www.hl.co.uk/pensions/sipp/how-much-can-i-invest/employer-contributions

    'What is an employer contribution?
    It's a payment made by an employer into an employee's pension. The contribution could be in the form of salary sacrificed by the employee or come direct from the company.'
  • cloud_dog
    cloud_dog Posts: 6,044 Forumite
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    Dox wrote: »
    If it's salary sacrifice, it isn't a deduction from your pay, so the deadlines of 19/22 of the following month don't apply.

    The Regulator gives the following guidance to employers: 'You may pay your own contributions to the scheme on any date you have agreed with the scheme provider or trustees, but in practice it makes it easier if you pay them on the same date as your worker contributions.'

    So no, not late.
    I was getting a little frustrated with my AVCs via SS as I was convinced that they had missed one months payment; the first one. It wasn't until I changed the contribution amount for a month that it became clear that, for my AVC scheme, the payments take over 6 weeks to arrive with Prudential. Unsure whether it is my company being slow to may the payment to the scheme administrators (Capita) or if it is the administrator delaying things, or any combination thereof.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True :D

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
  • ex-pat_scot
    ex-pat_scot Posts: 693 Forumite
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    i have similar with my GPPP with Scottish Widows.
    Generally my contributions are credited to my online SW account around 20th of the month following deduction - ie the March deduction should hit around 20 April. There had been one period of time where the credit was delayed - a difficulty with SW admin allocating the fund received from employer and then allocating that one lump of cash to each relevant employee account.


    If there is a delay, and unit prices of the funds have moved, then I would ask HL whether the delay was due to their administration (ie in crediting tthe amount to your account) or whether due to delay in reecipt of funds from employer.
    If the former (ie HL issue), then ask if they have recorded this as a breach and whether they have calculated any customer detriment (ie where prices have moved from the 20th to the date when units were purchased) and whether they plan to make good any resulting shortfall.
  • lisyloo
    lisyloo Posts: 29,614 Forumite
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    edited 27 April 2018 at 7:18AM
    I remain unconvinced about dox;s Reply - but waiting for a response on where the interpretation comes from.
    According to my salary letters my contractual salary is the whole lot and I agree to exchange part of it.
    My employer is also not making that claim.

    I have had a call from finance to say that Apris payment was delayed due to internal issues (we;ve recently restructured and lost staff), but also they are moving from 19th to 22nd.
    We were promised no detriment in any way (their words) in a TUPE consultation so I plan to take this up with HR (Human Resources).
    No issue at Hargreaves Lansdown.
  • mgdavid
    mgdavid Posts: 6,705 Forumite
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    ex-pat_scot wrote: »
    ................ whether they have calculated any customer detriment (ie where prices have moved from the 20th to the date when units were purchased) and whether they plan to make good any resulting shortfall.

    or whether they plan to take back any resulting benefit (if prices have moved in the opposite direction).
    The questions that get the best answers are the questions that give most detail....
  • lisyloo
    lisyloo Posts: 29,614 Forumite
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    edited 27 April 2018 at 10:27AM
    or whether they plan to take back any resulting benefit (if prices have moved in the opposite direction).
    Yes I am aware it works both ways, but an agreement under TUPE is an agreement is it not? and long term I want the earlier payment.

    As an aside my payslip shows my full salary with salary exchange as a deduction and my letters (which I believe show smy contractual salary) show my full salary.

    However I am pursuing the TUPE argument (19th) and not the regulatory one (22nd) for obvious reasons.
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