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New parking regulations at home...

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Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,448 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    PCM will sue you, using Gladstones, so don't collect too many and don't get complacent. It only takes a useless Judge like Janeo on pepipoo got this week:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=98775

    You need to get these cancelled and not collect any more and get together with other residents to either remove the PPC disease altogether, or kick out the MA.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Daniel_san
    Daniel_san Posts: 232 Forumite
    Thanks CM. I just read through that linked thread, and that's shockingly bad! What an ignorant judge! So something can be too many pages, take too much time, and non compliant, but ok as long as in the spirit of the act! Sounds like it's time for him to step down!

    As I understand it, in simple terms, my position is:
    Lease doesn't require permit
    I was never at any point consulted as to my thoughts on a PPC operating on the land.
    Regardless of parking in my bay, someone elses (I wouldn't of course) or a non marked space/place, there is no contract in force. Lease trumps errected signs
    Time and again I have notified the MA, Warwick Estates that I do not accept any T&C's regarding parking.
    I have previously, several times, offered my VRN's for inclusion to a "White" list. They have denied these requests and told me there isn't such a list and will not make one.
    No letter has been delivered to me with regards this latest PPC. Other residents have received a letter and a permit.
    I have now requested a copy of "any and all contracts relating to the parking" at the location. Previous contracts have been between the MA, WE, and the PPC.
    There is/has been so far, zero evidence of authority flowing from the land owner.

    It's my understanding that in the event a lease includes a clause where it may be varied for the "good running" of the estate, the landlord is required to give me advanced written notice of such changes. They have not. (taken from http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html )

    I'd love to get other residents involved, but sadly there are several issues: Some don't care, some don't care enough to actually want to do something about it, some don't want to "cause trouble", some don't speak English, some don't have cars, some use sticky tape to stick the permits to their windscreen! However, I have identified several cars parked right now that do not have permits, and so may potentially have received one or more letters this week. I may write to them and drop a letter through their box or under their doors and see if I get any hits!
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,448 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Time and again I have notified the MA, Warwick Estates that I do not accept any T&C's regarding parking.
    I have previously, several times, offered my VRN's for inclusion to a "White" list. They have denied these requests and told me there isn't such a list and will not make one.
    No letter has been delivered to me with regards this latest PPC. Other residents have received a letter and a permit.

    Wow...do you suspect they have withheld your permit, to expose you to this?

    Who did the letter come from that others have had, from the MA or PCM? This is PCM's calibre, one of the lowest knuckle-dragging ex-clamper firms you could hope to have let loose near your cars:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02sh3sr

    The treatment of you sounds appalling. Maybe involve your MP, seeing as it's a hot topic in Parliament (among others, like Brexit!!):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2017-03-21/debates/382789C8-0168-4C4B-8260-0540AF83C7D3/DVLAAndPrivateCarParkingCompanies

    Complain in every direction you can and keep putting it all in writing, as you have been.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Daniel_san
    Daniel_san Posts: 232 Forumite
    edited 5 April 2017 at 9:46AM
    Thanks as always CM.

    I'm not sure if that's an angle they're looking to, or if they simply didn't send me the letter with permit as they knew what my response would be.

    I haven't had sight of the letter, but I gather it came from WE (MA). Glad to know they've dragged the bottom feeders out to our development though, awesome....! Thanks for the BBC link, I watched that and know I understand who I'm dealing with.

    As a precaution, I've moved my vehicle elsewhere, off site, just so I don't stack up PCN's. I'm not giving up though. WE started with their sister company, UCS Parking, then moved to UKPS, now to PCM. I've fought off over 50 PCN's from the two previous PPC's and have all the paperwork including the copy email from WE wishing UKPS good luck with their claims against me, and the fake court papers they sent me to scare me into paying them.

    I'm going to gather up points and write them down, then speak to my MP, and local paper. I actually have worked for Caters News previously with some photography work, and have a good friend there who is gagging for a photo of me with all the PCN's plastered over my vehicle, so that may be an option too for max publicity. I just wanted WE to leave me alone, but now I think I want to kick them out completely. I've read about a Section 22 notice, but I can't find anything concrete that tells me if I have to be the RTM Co director to effect that, so I need to investigate more.

    Anyway, parking. Here's where I need some assistance please, so I am sure of my position.

    My lease says this:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6vspe703w4o9dp/lease-parking-space.jpg?dl=0
    AABA5jXoui6Nt1aBF-kon8Ura

    I received “replacement” terms from UCS Parking, which I cannot find right now, but you can imagine they basically tried to change the lease terms to suit them and enable them to issue PCN’s. I told WE this wasn’t acceptable and I reject them all.

    My lease also has this clause, and it is this clause that WE say allows them, as the MA, to vary the terms of my lease for the purpose of the PPC contracts.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dxa4vhrdwsd8gf/lease-vary-terms.jpg?dl=0
    lease-vary-terms.jpg?dl=0

    So, my understanding is this.
    Lease trumps everything else.
    No requirement for a permit scheme, so none can be introduced, certainly not by WE (MA). Potentially so by the lessor, but that would require a procedure to be followed surely? Such a clause in the lease couldn’t give the lessor carte blanche to amend or add terms to the lease however they wish? I would expect the lessor to write to all leaseholders stating they wish to amend something, and give time for arguments against to be made? There is a gate to the car park, only residents have a “fob” to enter, so only residents are using the car park, therefore the only people that would be penalised are genuine residents. Thus the scheme is not needed. There is no “offer” to park, it is a right given to residents.

    In issuing a PCN to me, or in this latest case, a NTK, having accessed the DVLA database without reasonable cause, they are breaching KADOE, and the Data Protection Act. I believe this entitles me to bring a claim against the PPC for the DPA breach – AND – WE, for “Tortious interference”.

    I’d really appreciate any corrections, confirmation, advice etc. I want to be sure of my position before I read WE the riot act by way of a reply to their latest email

    Big hat tip to these for the information I’ve been reading:
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html
    http://www.thebridesmother.co.uk/Media/residential-parking.pdf
  • Daniel_san
    Daniel_san Posts: 232 Forumite
    Sorry to bump......anyone have any words of wisdom before I proceed to reply to the MA? Just want to be 100% sure I understand what I've been reading correctly. Thank you :)
  • Half_way
    Half_way Posts: 7,047 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    cant find the link right now, but lynzer on pepipoo has a few template/ideas on residential parking that you may find of use.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
  • Daniel_san
    Daniel_san Posts: 232 Forumite
    Thanks, I'll have a search during lunch if I can.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,336 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Half_way wrote: »
    cant find the link right now, but lynzer on pepipoo has a few template/ideas on residential parking that you may find of use.
    Daniel_san wrote: »
    Thanks, I'll have a search during lunch if I can.

    Here you go, use your lunch break to read them rather than search for them. :)

    http://www.thebridesmother.co.uk/Media/residential-parking.pdf
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Daniel_san
    Daniel_san Posts: 232 Forumite
    Legend, thank you! :)

    I actually have that printed out from Monday, makes great reading!
  • Daniel_san
    Daniel_san Posts: 232 Forumite
    I'm still fine tuning a little, but I am preparing to send this email to my managing agent. Some forms part of a reply to an email exchange I have been having this week, where the MA point to a clause in my lease and state that as the basis which allows them to implement a parking scheme (the clause says "the LESSOR may change".... It doesn't give the MA authority at all).
    Any input would be appreciated.

    My argument is and has always been, that my lease does not state a permit is required to park a vehicle in the car park. It mentions nothing at all about a parking scheme, private or otherwise.
    To introduce such a scheme, as you have attempted to do on three occasions now, would require the lease to be amended.
    You state that clause 5.4 of my lease, allows you “as managing agents to instruct parking controls as we see fit”. This is incorrect. This clause is for changes to the lease, which you now state you haven’t changed. This clause gives you precisely ZERO authority to amend my lease.
    So if the lease has not been changed, which of course it hasn’t, as I haven’t agreed to and signed anything to say it has, then you are acting outside of your authority, which is what I explained to Wendy several years ago when your sister company UCS Parking was contracted with.

    I’ve demonstrated that you cannot do this over 20 times already by way of appeals to PCN’s issued to a vehicle outside of a space. I’ve over 50 PCN’s cancelled due to no locus standi. Yet for some reason you still think you are right and I am wrong.

    This is now the 3rd PPC you’ve contracted with, without authority to do so. You may have used the same tactic at other locations you manage, and people may well accept whatever you say and people may just pay PCN’s, but that doesn’t mean you actually did it lawfully. Some people are scared into paying by the volume of letters from debt companies and the threats they make. I do wonder what made you choose the PPC that were exposed for their dodgy practices by an undercover reporter for BBC Watchdog back in 2015?

    I’m sure you are just as tired of having this discussion as I am, so I am now INSISTING that you inform the PPC to White list my VRN’s and allow me the quiet enjoyment my lease allows me. You may wish to consider the proper steps to attempt to lawfully implement such a scheme, which I can assure you I will certainly argue against, on the grounds it is wholly unwarranted.

    The PPC is in breach of the Data Protection Act by gaining my personal details from the DVLA without reasonable cause. Partly due to them entering a contract with you under which you have zero authority to undertake. You’ve misled them basically. If they attempt to pursue me through the courts, they will lose, and then they may wish to seek recompense from you, that is a matter for them. I will also counter claim against them for the breach of DPA and name Warwick as a defendant to my counter claim for tortious interference of my lease contract. Once the court rules the PPC has no authority to operate, I will invite other residents to claim any PCN charges they paid to PPC’s from Warwick Estates. I will also insist at that point that the PPC be ejected from site with immediate effect.

    Dan
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