How to conform with Agricultural Occupancy Order?

tom9980 · 30 September 2019 at 9:46AM

Davesnave wrote: »

There are no down-sides at all for retired farmers in owning a property with an AOC, because they will have qualified to hold it until they pass on through their earlier work.

As an example my Dad a farm contractor had to retire due to industrial injury at 50 and bought a bungalow on a small plot (420 m2) with an Ag-tie they only paid £55k in 1998 for it. Perfect property for retirement with a very nice view. It was originally built in the late 1960's by the local farmer for the elderly mother to live in, not quite sure how they managed to get that past planning.

System · 30 September 2019 at 10:02AM

Sounds like more people should become a farm workers to get the advantages of AOC restricted houses.

Davesnave · 30 September 2019 at 10:08AM

Diocletian_II wrote: »

Sounds like more people should become a farm workers to get the advantages of AOC restricted houses.

High stress job if you are a contractor, as many are now, Mobile phones means there are people yelling for your services, mostly at the same time, and everything rides on the weather. Little exercise and long, lonely hours in the cab means it's not the healthy life it was.

Our regular guy didn't make it past 46.

Feel free.

System · 30 September 2019 at 10:14AM

Davesnave wrote: »

High stress job if you are a contractor, as many are now, Mobile phones means there are people yelling for your services, mostly at the same time, and everything rides on the weather. Little exercise and long, lonely hours in the cab means it's not the healthy life it was.

Our regular guy didn't make it past 46.

Feel free.

Yeh, but the advantages they get from being able to buy AOC restricted houses so cheaply outweighs all that, which makes them quite a privileged group of workers.

Jeepers_Creepers · 30 September 2019 at 10:37AM

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies.

Yes, as pointed out by a couple, one acre would be hard pushed to provide a viable income unless, I guess, something very specialised were entertained, and my sis doesn't have that kind of experience.

A very interesting development - her mum phoned up the council in question and asked what would would 'conform', and - after looking up the property on their books - was told that pretty much any form of produce she could then go on to sell would be fine; they had no issue with the house sale on this basis.

What? A realistic council?! I think they realised that the small amount of land would make any sense of a 'liveable' income a non-starter, and also there are very very few new jobs going in farming in that area (so unlikely a farm worker would be looking for a home), so they seemed to be happy to accept what is effectively a token gesture towards using the land for agri purposes.

The 3-bed property involved is not exactly a 'steal' at £350k, but when compared to others houses in the immediate area it does provide more in terms of the generous 'garden' and nice surroundings - it's on the outskirts of a very small village. There are a few other 3-bed houses for sale on normal residential plots within the same village, and these can all be had for less - around £300k-£325k, but the setting of this house is obviously much better. I'd hazard that - with no 'tie' - it would probably be marketed for around £425-ish, but that's only my guesstimate.

Anyhoo, they will arrange a viewing and see if they actually like it in the first place!

Thanks all.

Davesnave · 30 September 2019 at 11:03AM

Jeepers_Creepers wrote: »

A very interesting development - her mum phoned up the council in question and asked what would would 'conform', and - after looking up the property on their books - was told that pretty much any form of produce she could then go on to sell would be fine; they had no issue with the house sale on this basis.

What? A realistic council?! I think they realised that the small amount of land would make any sense of a 'liveable' income a non-starter, and also there are very very few new jobs going in farming in that area (so unlikely a farm worker would be looking for a home), so they seemed to be happy to accept what is effectively a token gesture towards using the land for agri purposes.
.

The situation post the 2008/9 Crash and austerity is a very different one for councils. They must prioritise spending and it's difficult to see how council tax payers will benefit from more rigorous application and monitoring of the AOC rules.

Then there's the question of what do do when breaches are discovered. People won't leave their homes willingly, without a fight. Here, where a group set up an illegal camp on their own land (which they trashed) in breach of the planning rules, it took 10 years and tens of thousands for the council to get them out and the land seized. There, they were left no other option, but there is with people who are living peaceably and responsibly farming a few acres attached to a tied property.

It's a far cry from the day in 2006 when I phoned one of the Dorset councils to enquire about the exact status of an ag-tied bungalow. I was told, "You make very sure you can comply with the tie, because we'll be watching, and if you don't, we'll get you out!"

Your SiL's Mum has done the right thing by investigating the local stance on this. It's something everyone contemplating such a purchase should do.

Waterlily24 · 30 September 2019 at 12:07PM

Our last house had an agricultural tie on it at one time. There were 4 along that road, one owned by the farmer and the other three by his children. The man we bought it from was an agricultural engineer and had the restriction taken off - cost quite a lot I believe. The land with it was about 3/4 of an acre. Lovely bunglow though surrounded by farmland.

billymadbiker · 30 September 2019 at 1:07PM

You don't need to do anything with the land.
The tie is related to the people occupying the house only.
(There are most likly be other restrictions on the land toeing it to agricultural use though rather than garden)

To be in compliance with the occupational tie most of your work needs to be within agriculture.

You could have 2 jobs and either make the most money out of agriculture or spend the most time in agriculture but if you don't do agriculture for the most time and the most money then be prepared to argue with the council depending on how active and harsh they are with enforcement.

Most likely is the local parish council continually pressuring the council to have a go at you if you were not born in the village.

billymadbiker · 30 September 2019 at 1:10PM

They also don't like it when one of a couple works in a low hours/pay agriculture job and the other has a higher income outside of agriculture.

There are various versions of the tie conditions and if it was written before 1955 or something then it could be unique so check the exact wording on the original consent.

You are looking for words like "primary" or "primarily "

Jeepers_Creepers · 30 September 2019 at 5:05PM

In reply to both your posts, Billy, that's why I asked whether being self-employed would conform, and from what the council says, the answer is 'yes - do something with the land, sell something, and that's enough'.

As I said before, I suspect they were being very specific to this property and wouldn't be so generous to a multi-acre holding.

I think I read on another thread on here that someone cited a legal case where the husband had a fairly well paid job away from the holding, and the wife's income from the 'farm' was relatively minimal. However, when tackled on this by the council, they won the case by demonstrating that the wife's income and position was still essential for them to maintain their standard of living, so the status quo was allowed.

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How to conform with Agricultural Occupancy Order?

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