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    • kittie
    • By kittie 18th Nov 08, 1:22 PM
    • 12,444Posts
    • 79,059Thanks
    It is tough NOW. So how are we coping
    • #1
    • 18th Nov 08, 1:22 PM
    It is tough NOW. So how are we coping 18th Nov 08 at 1:22 PM
    I started the `if things get tougher` thread in feb 2006. That thread has had over 235,000 views and it is now time to change emphasis. We are slap bang in the middle of the tough times and it is time to tread water and to look forward to a brighter future, probably in another 2 years

    Personally, I am frugal but very comfortable and have built a huge stockcupboard which will see me through several months, provided I have fruit and veg. I have a savings safety net, which I draw from every month because the only income until 2012 is from my small pension. I cycle when I can and have given my car away but we still have one car, used frugally. Energy use is minimal to maintain a good level of comfort

    All this and more, has been achieved since feb 2006 and I raise a glass to everybody in the `tougher` community and I wish you all well and good fortune as we get through this. Let us link arms and we will all survive together
    Last edited by kittie; 18-11-2008 at 1:31 PM.
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  • wigglebeena
    . if she's agressive call the police. .
    Originally posted by Bitsy Beans

    Yes. Absolutely. If her behaviour merits it then the shock could sort out the situation very quickly. Also ensure your friends and family understand how she is behaving and what she is up to - if you protect her by keeping it a secret then this enables her to continue, rather than continually being pulled up by people she knows asking her what the hell she thinks she is doing.

    Ad in the local paper asking if anyone wants an obnoxious teenage lodger/live-in housemaid? Or a blog detailing her activities/spending habits/lack of contribution which friends and family can follow...
    • recovering spendaholic
    • By recovering spendaholic 18th Mar 09, 11:22 AM
    • 3,049 Posts
    • 15,426 Thanks
    recovering spendaholic
    Thank you all so much for your supportive and very helpful posts. I agree with everything you have all said and am going to try and make some changes, although I think I may have to do it in stages because I suffer with anxiety and depression and too much confrontation might be more than I can handle right now. Yesterday she rang up for a lift from her bfs to home and I told her that I was too busy and had DD2 off school with an upset tummy. We had a shouting match over the phone but I stood my ground and she came in later, having got the bus. It isn't made any easier by the fact that I am a single parent and my ex OH (her father) has essentially washed his hands of her, saying that her behaviour over the last couple of years has made him ill. I rang O2 today about her phone and I have to wait until 24th March to be able to get the PAC number without penalty so that is what I will do. It will save me around 50 a month which I really need at the moment. I mentioned the idea of paying keep which she didn't like and said she would go and live at the BF's rather than pay me anything, but as she practically lives there anyway that would make no difference. What I did say was that I wasn't prepared to go on paying for everything for her and feeding her and the bf, plus giving her money on a regular basis because they are always broke. She got very annoyed and flounced off out to the bfs and hasn't been back yet so we'll have to see. Anyway it's a start!

    I am going to have a look at the 750 car tomorrow and will decide then if it is worth giving mine back in exchange.

    Now I just need to get my grocery spending and food waste down! I don't throw away as much as I used to but I still do throw out fruit and veg on a regular basis.

    Thank you all again for your kind words of support - I will try and join in with the thread more instead of lurking as I find it so interesting to hear what you are all doing!

    ENDIS. Employed, no disposable income or savings!
    • mumoftwo
    • By mumoftwo 18th Mar 09, 11:31 AM
    • 1,907 Posts
    • 11,491 Thanks
    Small steps Jane (recovering spendaholic) Well done for standing your ground, the shouting your daughter does is just because she is angry and trying to intimidate you, try and block it out, decide what you won't longer do or pay for, do it in stages if it is easier for you. When the fireworks start humm a favourite tune or something in your head. See how the boyfriend and her cope together... Encourage her to move in there then.

    Good luck, you are stressed and have depression now already with paying everything for her, at least with you making the decision, you can feel stronger, you are in control. All the best and big hugs for you
    • meanmarie
    • By meanmarie 18th Mar 09, 12:05 PM
    • 5,151 Posts
    • 50,097 Thanks
    meanmarie sorry that you are suffering so much at the hands of your daughter...I agree with everyone who has said that you will have to refuse to be financially responsible for her, no phone, no taxi, no money or food...she must either shape up or ship out!

    To avoid stressing yourself, refuse to engage in arguments of any kind with her...leave the room if that is the only way you can cope, you have done your best which is all any of us are required to do for our children, so stop feeling guilty where no guilt exists and live your life for you, not her


    Weight 08 February 86kg
    • the_cat
    • By the_cat 18th Mar 09, 12:49 PM
    • 2,099 Posts
    • 11,347 Thanks
    RS (Jane)

    You have made a stand and taken a very important first step. It will get easier the more often you do it. She will learn she cannot bully you any more and will eventually give up. Pick your battles by all means to make it a gradual change but make absolutely sure that once you have said something (eg you won't pay for her cab) that you NEVER back down. Consistency is the key thing or she will keep trying to grind you down

    Well done
  • mummysaver
    Mummysaver - i use value plain flour in the breadmaker and the bread turns out fine - you could give it a go as its usually about 39p!
    Originally posted by carrieann
    Thanks for that, I shall give it a go! I use value for just about everything else I bake so I don't know why I don't use it for bread! I'm sure I've used it in the past, don't know whay I stopped or why I forgot about that option! Value flour shall be the way forward!
  • mummysaver
    RS - I think that people have made some great suggestions here, and everyone is always really supportive, so come and moan away if you need to! For what it's worth, I think that telling her that you will be stopping paying for her phone is quite reasonable, I work with many young girls and the vast majority pay for their own phones, just as well the amount of time some of them spend on them! Also having a word with the local taxi co when they next drop her and you end up with the bill seems a good idea, it will do your daughter no harm to pay for her own cabs, and it isn't unreasonable to refuse to pay part of her entertainment bill.

    No doubt all this will be fairly stressful, and if you already suffer with anxiety then small steps may make things easier, so just letting her know that your payment of her phone contract is ending, giving her enough warning then to sort out something herself, and telling her you can't afford to pay her cab fares seem like good places to start.

    Perhaps then you can move onto asking her not to empty your cupboards, as otherwise you and her sister will have nothing to eat! If necessary leave the cupboards fairly bare to prove a point.

    As you have already suggested rent and she has threatened to go and live with her boyfriend, I wouldn't bother to argue too hard over this at the moment, but once you have taken your smaller steps then you can discuss it again, or if she is unwilling then you may have to recommend that she does indeed go and stay with her boyfriend.

    Isn't there a saying about giving our children roots to grow and wings to fly? Think your dd has forgotten that she has wings! Good luck hun xx
    • Katie-Kat-Kins
    • By Katie-Kat-Kins 18th Mar 09, 3:14 PM
    • 1,717 Posts
    • 1,791 Thanks
    RS - I had to write as someone who lived with her parents until her late twenties.

    I can't believe how badly your daughter is behaving, I think she really needs a short sharp shock. I think you should tell her that you can't afford to keep her, that you have stopped paying for her phone and she will have to go onto PAYG (most secondary school kids pay for their own PAYG mobile from pocket money). You should also tell her that you won't pay for a taxi for her again and if she gets in one she had better go via the cash machine. Tell her that for security you have decided not to ever have more than 5 in the house. If she turns up in the cab simply refuse to pay and let the cab company sort it.

    Tell her that she is earning a wage now and everyone that earns a wage should pay their way, ask her to set up a standing order from her account to yours for the day after pay day for an agreed amount. If she is unwilling to pay then tell her you will have to ask her to move out and you will look for a lodger as you don't have the money to run the house without the extra money.

    If she says that she will go to her boyfriend's tell her that is fine, but she needs to move all her stuff out and return her key so that you can get a lodger.

    Sounds harsh, but she clearly thinks you are a walk over and she needs to understand that she is being unreasonable and she can't carry on. Hopefully if she doesn't have a key she should stop emptying your cupboards. With a bit of luck if she can see that you could be getting money for her room if she moved out she will see that it is reasonable for her to pay a bit of board.

    She'd never afford a place of her own on those wages but while she is freeloading she has no incentive to save, or get a better job.

    Best of Luck!
    • Primrose
    • By Primrose 18th Mar 09, 3:24 PM
    • 9,104 Posts
    • 33,071 Thanks
    RS - well done for your decisions. Don't allow yourself to be bullied. When your daughter gets difficult, just end the conversation and leave the room. If she threatens to go and live with her boyfriend let her. He may soon get tired of her behaviour too, and having to support her financially. Do you have any acquaintances who are good actresses would could come round while your duaghter is at home and pretend to be a potential lodger. Get them to say they'd heard that you were thinking of renting out your spare bedroom. . I think that would really get the message across to your daughter that you are seriious. You could always say in front of her "My daughter's planning to move out and I need the income so I'll let you know when she's moving if you are interested". If that doesn't show her you're serious, nothing will.
    • Austin Allegro
    • By Austin Allegro 18th Mar 09, 3:45 PM
    • 1,445 Posts
    • 4,072 Thanks
    Austin Allegro
    This made me smile, as my OH thought I was mad last weekend when I wanted somewhere warm to put my dough to rise, so I put it in the car which was on the drive in the sun and consequently very warm - it worked a dream!
    Originally posted by garden-lover
    You could set up a solar cooker in a car, as a sealed car will get extremely hot in the sun.

    You can also use your car as a washing machine, apparently. Shove all your clothes in a sealed barrel of soap and water in the boot, and as you drive around the agitation cleans them. I've never tried it though!
    'Never keep up with Joneses. Drag them down to your level. It's cheaper.' Quentin Crisp
    • adouglasmhor
    • By adouglasmhor 18th Mar 09, 4:00 PM
    • 14,571 Posts
    • 21,365 Thanks
    You could set up a solar cooker in a car, as a sealed car will get extremely hot in the sun.

    You can also use your car as a washing machine, apparently. Shove all your clothes in a sealed barrel of soap and water in the boot, and as you drive around the agitation cleans them. I've never tried it though!
    Originally posted by Austin Allegro
    Used to do something similar on exercise in Germany, detergent and water in a drum in the back of my waggon, then dry them on my cam nets at night.
    The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside your head. Terry Pratchett
    • Austin Allegro
    • By Austin Allegro 18th Mar 09, 4:23 PM
    • 1,445 Posts
    • 4,072 Thanks
    Austin Allegro
    Used to do something similar on exercise in Germany, detergent and water in a drum in the back of my waggon, then dry them on my cam nets at night.
    Originally posted by adouglasmhor
    I always wondered how stuff got cleaned on 'active'. My military experience extends only to the Corps at school, so it was my long suffering mother that did all the washing! I had to do the ironing though as military standard was too much to ask her for...

    On the subject of the lady with the teenage daughter, it's worth remembering that in a family crisis, it can be helpful to get other less close family members on board if possible. My family's been through a few rough patches recently and my brother - in - law was incredibly helpful because he had sufficient 'distance' to sort out the problem yet was still trustworthy, if that makes sense. Sometimes it can all get a bit too claustrophic in family matters and an 'outsider' can be a great benefit.
    'Never keep up with Joneses. Drag them down to your level. It's cheaper.' Quentin Crisp
    • daska
    • By daska 18th Mar 09, 5:29 PM
    • 6,011 Posts
    • 11,915 Thanks
    Now I just need to get my grocery spending and food waste down! I don't throw away as much as I used to but I still do throw out fruit and veg on a regular basis.
    Originally posted by recovering spendaholic
    If you empty the cupboards and buy small amounts there won't be anything for your daughter to raid, or for you to throw away.

    Congratulations, the first few times you stand up to her will be the hardest. Good suggestion on getting someone else to come round to support you. I'm not so sure about the blog, I wouldn't be confident that there would be anything to gain by embarassing her.

    By the time I was buying buying a bag of staples to help my family member start her independent life I was finding it quite easy to stand my ground...
  • ceridwen
    Hi RAS

    To me - the suggestions re a blog or calling in the police are too confrontational. Anyways - congrats on taking the first steps in dealing with this issue.

    What KatP said I felt was the best way of handling this. Certainly my reaction to her threat to live with her boyfriend would be "Go on then - feel free" and mean it.

    I dont think her behaviour would be acceptable if you were on a good income - but being on the income level that you are on - then its clearly literally not affordable for you to subsidise her this way. I think it could well be a good idea to literally walk away from her if she persists in repeating herself whenever she decides to "have a rant". I think it would be best to tell her how it is - repeat it once or twice if need be - and then just say "I've said my piece and now I have to go out" and do just that. I think she is taking advantage of you suffering from depression, etc, problems I'm afraid. I have certainly noticed over the years that there are some people who will instantly spot when other people are feeling a bit vulnerable for whatever reason - and will deliberately "zero in" on them at those points to try and get whatever-it-is they want from the person concerned. It must be very hard when one of them is your own daughter - but I guess recognising what she is doing is the first step to dealing with it.
  • MindaJ
    RS, could you use peer pressure to get your daughter to see sense? Does she have any friends who are paying board, paying for their own phones etc who could have a chat to her? Or maybe cousins who are her age? Or do any of your friends have kids her age? Maybe if someone her own age spoke down to her and made her feel ashamed for how she's treating you, it could make a difference.

    I'm assuming she wants to be an adult, if she can have someone who she'll listen to tell her she's being a child it might help her change.
    • kidcat
    • By kidcat 20th Mar 09, 9:35 AM
    • 6,042 Posts
    • 73,181 Thanks
    MOrning all, yesterday was obviously very quiet on here, I have spent two days in hospital with DS10, and expected that there would be pages to catch up on. Well my week has definately got worse, having the two days in hospital had been absolutely exhausting as I had no sleep whatsoever, and now feel like the living dead!
    The other effect has been that DH had to take another day off work and after having Monday off too, we will only receive half a weeks wages next week. Its the big week when all the bills hit inc rent and I am unsure how we are going to pay them all.
    Having got ourselves on a level with our finances I realise how precarious our financial situation still is, which has hit me quite hard.
    • Charis
    • By Charis 20th Mar 09, 10:27 AM
    • 1,293 Posts
    • 13,610 Thanks
    Hi Kidcat

    It has been rather quiet on here, and on the simplifying life thread. Sorry to hear about your predicament, which will feel even worse because of your exhaustion. Make sure you get some rest today. The housework will still be there tomorrow.
    • sparrer
    • By sparrer 20th Mar 09, 11:33 PM
    • 6,789 Posts
    • 53,702 Thanks
    recovering spendaholic When my son was a teenager he thought nothing of using the phone and for months I had a bill of between 200 and 300 before I put a stop on him using it. When he started work, although his older sisters had always paid their way, he acted as though the world owed him and probably paid me some keep perhaps two or three times in as many years. He was aggressive, beligerent, I admit I was a little scared of him and he caused me a lot of anxiety and stress. One evening we had yet another argument about his behaviour and he stood up and over me in a threatening way...I had no choice but to call the police. The kindly policeman talked to us both, and my son left to go and stay with his sister. A few weeks later he and his then gf moved in together. It was the best thing that ever happened, he grew up overnight, accepted his responsibilities, paid his bills, changed into a respectable citizen.

    Now five years later he has come back to stay with me during the week as he's been temporarily seconded to this area. It's an absolute joy to have this young man in my home, he's helpful, turning his hand to all sorts of odd jobs for me, assists with shopping, the garden, helps me to sort out problems/paperwork, and pays me more than I asked him for, every month on the dot.

    It was a drastic thing to do but not one of my family or friends turned away from me and he says it's the best thing I ever did for him. For a while it was horrible, I thought he'd never speak to me again and resent me completely. Surprisingly it wasn't like that at all, today we're great friends and thoroughly enjoy each others company.

    I can only say how it was for me. I wish you the strength to do whatever you think is the right way, but you have to do something. Please don't be afraid or let your daughter pull you down any more, you have a life of your own and you deserve to enjoy it so much more than having to put up with the treatment you're receiving. The power is all yours, she needs a short, sharp shock which she'll appreciate one day, although she won't think so at first. Good luck and God bless
  • ceridwen
    ...a bit of hope we might get our money back ....
    An article of interest from todays papers re whats happening re money "stolen" by the greedier members of American society.....which possibly gives a shred of hope for us getting our money back from the greedier members of our society..a 90% tax on those "bonuses" for a start-off here perhaps (go on then Mr Brown - get that tax in place - the bankers cant sue the Government for that):
    Last edited by ceridwen; 21-03-2009 at 8:06 AM.
    • kittie
    • By kittie 21st Mar 09, 8:22 AM
    • 12,444 Posts
    • 79,059 Thanks
    yesterday I made some lemon squash as I had 5 lemons, from an organic box and a friend back from spain. A first for me and very very easy, now in lock and lock jugs in the fridge

    4-5 lemons
    less than 1 kg sugar (I used 900g)
    1 pint boiling water
    1 oz ciric acid

    put acid and sugar in a large bowl and dissolve in the water. Juice the lemons and quarter the skins. Put all the lemmon bits and juice in the syrup. Cover and leave overnight. Strain and bottle. Store in fridge for a month

    My mother used to make lemonade but I wanted something to use all the big lemons. It was so easy, now I am going to look up other squashes. Bottlegreen here I come and no aspartame in sight

    I got citric acid from the chemist counter in boots
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