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3 years between PCN and Court presence demanded

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  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    The reason I am bringing it up is because in other cases I see many letters from Legal firms and debt collectors being referred to, dates mentioned, failures to comply cited etc etc. Other cases are chronologically recounting the story and highlighting all the points in their favour.I cannot say any of these things as I didn't receive any letters so my story is a 36 month blank.
    Seems relevant to me because I can't mimic the methodology of these cases?

    in that case if there was no previous paperwork then that becomes part of your defence , as would no compliant LBC under the new oct 2017 protocols (PaP)

    it is unlikely that they complied with POFA2012 anyway, so a lack of an NTK and a lack of any POFA2012 compliance means the keeper cannot be liable , but these issues are nothing to do with it being 3 months , 3 years or 5.9 years old for that matter

    but there will be other defence points included in your draft, so start with a basic draft and add extra points in as you hone the defence, but do not concentrate on the time differential , 3 years can be typical
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    edited 10 April 2018 at 4:27PM
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    The reason I am bringing it up is because in other cases I see many letters from Legal firms and debt collectors being referred to, dates mentioned, failures to comply cited etc etc. Other cases are chronologically recounting the story and highlighting all the points in their favour.I cannot say any of these things as I didn't receive any letters so my story is a 36 month blank.
    Seems relevant to me because I can't mimic the methodology of these cases?
    Yes you can, search the forum for BW Legal claim 6 years or BW Legal claim 2012 and you will find the oldest ones. Your 3 year wait is small by comparison!
    The Claimant did not comply with POFA 2012. [STRIKE]and give the registered keeper opportunity, at any point, to identify the driver[/STRIKE].
    I suggest removing the words struck out above, because they probably did ask who was driving in the paperwork (that they WILL produce, even if you do not recall receiving - or did not receive - a NTK) but we know they didn't comply with the POFA (never have, IMHO). The point is not that you didn't have the 'opportunity' to name the driver, more that you as keeper, can't be held liable.

    Where is the location, not good old Albert St Birmingham, is it? If so then you need to search the forum for the location and add the stuff about the Excel (not VCS) signage!
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  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
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    so I think that the fact that this is 3 years old is clouding your judgment and is irrelevant


    It certainly would not be irrelevant if they did take you to court and lost. You might then be able to claim costs for unreasonable behaviour, CPR27.14(2)(g).

    BW Legal issue hundreds, nay thousands, of these poorly prepared claims each year, an abuse of the process, and a waste of the court's time. They have been named and shamed by MPs, one of whom has complained to their regulatory body, the S.R.A. Read some of these:

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=BW+Legal+lose+in+court&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-gb&httpsmsn=1&refig=9e20e4abac5b496c823d90526624884c&PC=ACTS&sp=-1&ghc=1&pq=undefined&sc=0-13&qs=n&sk=&cvid=9e20e4abac5b496c823d90526624884c

    hltf
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • WhoDunnitDevil
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    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Yes you can, search the forum for BW Legal claim 6 years or BW Legal claim 2012 and you will find the oldest ones. Your 3 year wait is small by comparison!

    I suggest removing the words struck out above, because they probably did ask who was driving in the paperwork (that they WILL produce, even if you do not recall receiving - or did not receive - a NTK) but we know they didn't comply with the POFA (never have, IMHO). The point is not that you didn't have the 'opportunity' to name the driver, more that you as keeper, can't be held liable.

    Where is the location, not good old Albert St Birmingham, is it? If so then you need to search the forum for the location and add the stuff about the Excel (not VCS) signage!

    Thanks - I will take those suggestions on board and amend accordingly.

    The location was in Nottingham, not Birmingham. I will also search for the location on the forum and see if there is anything of any use for me.
  • WhoDunnitDevil
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    Hi guys,

    I need to submit my defence by Monday 30th at 4pm but I was aiming to get it submitted this week.
    Below is the latest draft.
    I have tidied it up since the last iteration. Could you please suggest anything I can do to improve my case? (My headings are in bold)


    I am xxx, the defendant in this matter and the registered keeper of vehicle xxx.

    I deny I am liable for the entirety of the claim on the following grounds:

    1. No signature of an individual on the Claim Form
    The Claim Form issued on the 27 March 2018 by BW Legal Services Ltd was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person. The claim does not have a valid signature and is not a statement of truth. It states that it has been issued by BW Legal Services Ltd as the Claimants Legal Representative. Practice Direction 22 requires that a statement of case on behalf of a company must be signed by a person holding a senior position and state the position. If the party is legally represented, the legal representative may sign the statement of truth but in his own name and not that of his firm or employer.

    2. Preliminary matter - failure to comply with pre-action protocol
    This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol (as outlined in the new Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims, 1 October 2017) and as an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

    a. There was no compliant Letter before County Court Claim under the Practice Direction.

    b. This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of draft particulars. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.

    c. The Schedule of Information is sparse of detailed information.

    d. The Claim Form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about; why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information. Furthermore, the Claim Form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs. These documents, and the Letter before County Court Claim should have been produced, pursuant to paragraph 6 of the Practice Direction Pre Action Conduct. This constitutes a deliberate attempt to thwart any efforts to defend the claim or to take stock, pursuant to paragraph 12 of the Practice Direction. Again, this totally contradicts the guidance outlined in the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (2017), the aims of which are:

    i. Early engagement and communication between the parties, including early exchange of sufficient information about the matter to help clarify whether there are any issues in dispute

    ii. enable the parties to resolve the matter without the need to start court proceedings, including agreeing a reasonable repayment plan or considering using an Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) procedure

    iii. encourage the parties to act in a reasonable and proportionate manner in all dealings with one another (for example, avoiding running up costs which do not bear a reasonable relationship to the sums in issue) and

    iv. support the efficient management of proceedings that cannot be avoided.

    e. The Defence therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as disclosing no cause of action and having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted

    3. Failure to comply with POFA 2012
    The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA 2012). Such a notice was not served within 14 days of the parking event and when the notice was served, did not fully comply with statutory wording. The Claimant is therefore unable to hold the defendant liable under the strict keeper liability provisions:

    The Claimant did not comply with POFA 2012. A Notice to Keeper can be served by ordinary post and the Protection of Freedoms Act requires that the Notice, to be valid, must be delivered no later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked. No ticket was left on the windscreen and no notice to keeper was sent within the 14 days required to comply with POFA 2012. This would exclude the registered keeper being liable for any charges.

    Henry Greenslade, lead adjudicator of POPLA in 2015 and an eminent barrister and parking law expert, stated that however keeper information is obtained, there is no reasonable presumption in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver. Operators should never suggest anything of the sort. Schedule 4 also states that the only sum a keeper can be pursued for (if Schedule 4 is fully complied with, which it was not, and if there was a 'relevant obligation' and relevant contract' fairly and adequately communicated, which there was not) is the sum on the Notice to Keeper. They cannot pluck another sum from thin air and bolt that on as well when neither the signs, nor the NTK, nor the permit information mentioned a possible £333.81 for outstanding debt and damages. The additional costs, which the defendant contests have not been incurred, are none of its concern.

    4. Unjustified inflation to the claim value
    The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated, and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that £50 legal representative’s costs were incurred. The Defendant believes that BW Legal Services Ltd has artificially inflated this claim. They are claiming legal costs when not only is this not permitted (CPR 27.14) but the Defendant believes that they have not incurred legal costs. According to Ladak v DRC Locums UKEAT/0488/13/LA the claimant can only recover the direct and provable costs of the time spent on preparing the claim in a legal capacity, not any administration cost. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to any interest whatsoever. The claimant has not explained how the claim has increased from the original parking notice to £251.34 If the Claimant alleges that they claim the cost of its in-house administration, these cannot be recovered - they are staff performing the task that they have been employed for and essential to the Claimant's business plan.

    5. This case is fully distinguished from ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis

    This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. As far as I can ascertain, based upon the very vague particulars of claim and complete lack of evidence and photographs, and without having been furnished with the alleged signage, none of this applies in this material case.
    a. The Beavis case confirmed the fact that, if it is a matter of trespass (not breach of any contract), a parking firm has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue even nominal damages.

    b. The charge is an unenforceable penalty based upon a lack of commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim as far as the Defendant is able to tell from the limited information provided by the Claimant.

    6. Unreasonable length of time between alleged incident and claim form

    Due to the length of time, the Defendant has little to no recollection of the day in question. It is not reasonable to expect a registered keeper to be able to recall the potential driver(s) of the car 36 months after the alleged incident. The burden rests with the Claimant to identify the driver, who is the only party potentially liable in cases where a parking firm is unable to rely upon the POFA.



    7. Summary
    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that the Claimant has:

    (a) Failed to disclose any cause of action in the incorrectly filed Claim Form issued on 27 March 2018.

    (b) Sent a template, well-known to be generic cut and paste 'Particulars' of claim relying on irrelevant case law (Beavis) which ignores the fact that this Claimant cannot hold registered keepers liable in law, due to their own choice of non-POFA documentation.

    The vague Particulars of Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.


    STATEMENT OF TRUTH

    I confirm that the contents of this Defence are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.



    xxx
    XX April 2018
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    Looks good, only skim read but you have the main points you need there.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,638 Forumite
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    Slight adjustment needed:
    e. The [STRIKE]Defence[/STRIKE] Defendant therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as disclosing no cause of action and having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.
  • WhoDunnitDevil
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    Hi guys,

    Just a quick one I think.

    I am about to finalise by inputting my personal details, printing, signing, saving as a PDF with my signature and then sending. I just wanted to check I am not missing anything or have added too much. I did look at some templates but can't see anything which helps. Happy to be redirected to a link.
    I have included my address in the top right, the make, model and reg of the car.
    Before the body begins I have the reference of the Claim Number.
    I DON'T HAVE the date here or the address of the recipient, should I include these?
    I have my name, the date and my signature at the bottom after the statement of truth.

    Is there anything I am missing and should I include the date and the court postal address at the beginning as if it were a "normal" letter?

    Thanks
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,638 Forumite
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    You seem to be asking about layout.

    Here is a sample Defence linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread which should help with that:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/rl1e9kocnuwvjzc/Defence%20-%20VCS%20Claim.docx?dl=0


    But as it says in post #2 of the NEWBIES: DO NOT blindly copy that one but you can see how to set it out: numbered, double line-spaced in Times New Roman font 12.
  • WhoDunnitDevil
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    Thanks KeithP, it was a layout question.

    My Defence Report is now officially submitted. I will keep an eye on the dashboard of my login page to confirm they have acknowledged it. :T

    Thanks for everyone's help so far. :beer:
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