Apple Pay in Asda/Lidl

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  • Westie983
    Westie983 Posts: 5,213
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    Thanks for all contributions to this thread.

    Hopefully we can on agree to disagree depending on our own views and opinions.

    Westie983
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Banking & Borrowing, and Reduce Debt & Boost Income boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySaving Expert.
    Save 12k in 2023 #58 Total (£4500.00) £2500.00/£5000 = 50.00%
    Sealed Pot Challenge ~17 #24 Total (£55.00) £0.00/£500 = 0.00%
    Xmas 2023 £1 a Day #13 Total (£85.00) £344.00/£365 = 94.24%
    Virtual Sealed Pot #1 Total (£500) £550.00/£500 = 110.00%
    £2 Savers Club 2023 #17 Total (£25.00) £45/£300 = 15.00%
    The 365 1p Challenge 2023 #7 Total £656.19/£667.95 = 98.23%
    Total £4095.19/£7332.95 = 55.84%
  • knack92
    knack92 Posts: 464
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    Westie983 wrote: »
    I have used apple pay for over £30 but not able to use my debit card for over £30 due to the contactless limit, so there must be a difference between the two payment methods.

    that said can we say enough now, Takman, Anthorn as this is a silly argument, you have both said your points of view and you are going around the houses.

    Lets just leave it here, and agree to disagree on each others points of view.

    Westie983

    The difference is the verification method. Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method enabled payment terminals allow payments over the usual limit if verification takes place on the device. Those interested can learn more about it at https://support.apple.com/en-gb/ht202527 which includes comparisons to other payment methods like PIN.

    CDCVM is fully supported by payment networks eg. Visa and MasterCard in their contactless specifications, by banks/card issuers and by the uk cards association. All are satisfied that the £30 limit needn’t apply as verification is in place unlike with a contactless card.
  • Westie983
    Westie983 Posts: 5,213
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    knack92 wrote: »
    The difference is the verification method. Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method enabled payment terminals allow payments over the usual limit if verification takes place on the device. Those interested can learn more about it at https://support.apple.com/en-gb/ht202527 which includes comparisons to other payment methods like PIN.

    CDCVM is fully supported by payment networks eg. Visa and MasterCard in their contactless specifications, by banks/card issuers and by the uk cards association. All are satisfied that the £30 limit needn’t apply as verification is in place unlike with a contactless card.

    Great thanks for this explanation, very interesting.

    Westie983
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Banking & Borrowing, and Reduce Debt & Boost Income boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySaving Expert.
    Save 12k in 2023 #58 Total (£4500.00) £2500.00/£5000 = 50.00%
    Sealed Pot Challenge ~17 #24 Total (£55.00) £0.00/£500 = 0.00%
    Xmas 2023 £1 a Day #13 Total (£85.00) £344.00/£365 = 94.24%
    Virtual Sealed Pot #1 Total (£500) £550.00/£500 = 110.00%
    £2 Savers Club 2023 #17 Total (£25.00) £45/£300 = 15.00%
    The 365 1p Challenge 2023 #7 Total £656.19/£667.95 = 98.23%
    Total £4095.19/£7332.95 = 55.84%
  • Anthorn
    Anthorn Posts: 4,362
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    knack92 wrote: »
    The difference is the verification method. Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method enabled payment terminals allow payments over the usual limit if verification takes place on the device. Those interested can learn more about it at https://support.apple.com/en-gb/ht202527 which includes comparisons to other payment methods like PIN.

    CDCVM is fully supported by payment networks eg. Visa and MasterCard in their contactless specifications, by banks/card issuers and by the uk cards association. All are satisfied that the £30 limit needn’t apply as verification is in place unlike with a contactless card.

    This takes me back to my original objection in this thread. As Apple says:
    For Apple Pay contactless EMV transactions, CDCVM is performed and verified entirely on the iOS device or Apple Watch. During the transaction, no additional customer action is required on the payment terminal or paper receipt to verify the customer, such as a signature or PIN.
    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/ht202527

    As I said originally, Apple Pay is only as secure as the mobile device. As I understand it, when an iOS device or Apple Watch is used the payment processor will abandon all other verification methods which are open to CDCVM transactions.

    In short where unauthorised access to an iOS device or Apple Watch is gained Apple Pay will allow unlimited debits within the confines of the retailer's limit and availability of funds without any further verification being required.
  • takman
    takman Posts: 3,876
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    Anthorn wrote: »
    This takes me back to my original objection in this thread. As Apple says:

    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/ht202527

    As I said originally, Apple Pay is only as secure as the mobile device. As I understand it, when an iOS device or Apple Watch is used the payment processor will abandon all other verification methods which are open to CDCVM transactions.

    In short where unauthorised access to an iOS device or Apple Watch is gained Apple Pay will allow unlimited debits within the confines of the retailer's limit and availability of funds without any further verification being required.

    But i don't see why you have a problem with that? You could say that about every system used in banking. The devices using this method of verification will have security features in them which the banks have deemed good enough to prevent unauthorised access.

    If you COMPARE this to Chip and Pin then the terminal could potentially be modified to take payment without requiring a Pin. But yet you don't seem to have a problem with this method of payment?

    If someone stole a phone with the intention of bypassing the Apple Pay security and using it to purchase to items. By the time they did manage to do it attempted to make payments most people would have noticed the phone gone and remotely disabled it.
  • Ballard
    Ballard Posts: 2,845
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    20aday wrote: »
    Apple, Google and Samsung Pay can be used anywhere that has contactless facilities; it’s just the some places are capped at the standard limit of £30 for whatever reason.

    If in doubt it’s just easier to present your piece of plastic :)

    I popped into Robert Dyas lunchtime. Someone ahead of me in the queue attempted to pay by Android but it didn’t work. The cashier said that whilst Apple Pay works, Android doesn’t.
    I hate verisimilitude.
  • Shop at Morrison’s then, they just let me pay £126 on Apple Pay
  • If anyone had my phone they would have to have one of my fingers then
  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Posts: 630
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    123Fred wrote: »
    If anyone had my phone they would have to have one of my fingers then

    Not quite. After 3 unsuccessful print verifications, it will move onto password, so it is possible (but highly unlikely) that they will guess your password before being locked out.
  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Posts: 630
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    Weird situation in Lidl with Apple Pay at the moment. A few weeks back my bill was just over £32 and I paid using apple pay with Amex card. Would not accept it. Wondered if it was a glitch. Today my Lidl total was £30.06. Amex apple pay would not work. Switched over to my Nationwide credit card in apple pay and that was accepted.

    Although Lidl accept Apple Pay well over £30 limit, is seems that Amex is treated as though it were a card contactless payment.

    It will be interesting to see what happens when I go to Aldi and the bill is over £30.

    Has anyone else experienced this with Lidl?
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