Ask Atos Healthcare disability assessment questions

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  • Raksha
    Raksha Posts: 4,570 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker First Anniversary
    As I understand it, the MHC are there for the HCP to refer to, they don't actually asses 'customers' themselves
    Please forgive me if my comments seem abrupt or my questions have obvious answers, I have a mental health condition which affects my ability to see things as others might.
  • JS477
    JS477 Posts: 1,968 Forumite
    Raksha wrote: »
    As I understand it, the MHC are there for the HCP to refer to, they don't actually asses 'customers' themselves

    It seems these MHCs aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

    Here

    Also from that informative article:-

    "In April, the Conservative employment minister Mark Hoban told Jones in response to a parliamentary question that there were “no formal performance measures” for MFCs, while “no separate data is held on the specific performance” of MFCs."

    MFC = Mental Function Champion!!
  • Atos_Healthcare_representative
    Atos_Healthcare_representative Posts: 221 Organisation Representative
    LiMA

    - done properly ~v~ done badly
    - done with ~v~ done without speaking
    - done hurriedly ~v~ done with all the time in the world
    - done by a skilled practitioner ~v~ done by a monkey
    - done by an ASDA 'till jockey' ~v~ done by an ATOS HCP

    The outcome average refusals will be the same, its not a design fault, its a well designed fully effective working Logic Integrated Medical Assessment model regardless of who is at the keyboard. The primary design of LiMA, its training programme, line managers and statistical outcome characteristic is to deny 58% of its customers a fair hearing and a fair outcome, its your right, those 42% are entitled under UK laws to their rights. LiMA denied those 42% the equal treatment they are entitled to. If it was anything other than what I describe then the mixed average [in person & paper] of 42%+ appeals would not succeed and the 65%+ of represented appeals would not succeed. Its not an emotional opinion, but a mathematical truth. 5% ? possible 10% ? maybe just bad design..... but 42%+ - give me a break, its been hovering around 45% since it stated years and years ago and has never been input~improved but has been negatively outcome~adjusted.

    In my opinion the assessor is virtually irrelevant in the process other than needing to put a 'human face' on the process, listening, smiling while diligently ticking each box will make no difference whatsoever, it might be a social nicety, but would not change the conclusion. Done by a skilled practitioner or done by a monkey the outcome is always going to be the same. Its predictive software, its capacity to anticipate an outcome, any outcome, at for example an adjusted 30% 20% 70% anything they choose can be achieved by simply changing the descriptor or the interpretation of a descriptor.

    Hi Richie-from-the-Boro

    LiMA is an application which a qualified and approved health care professional uses to record clinical information and to construct a report. This is exactly the same scenario as can often be seen when visiting a GP surgery – many GPs now make their clinical notes on a specialised computer application rather than using paper records. The LiMA application does not write the report and LiMA does not “predict” what the outcome is going to be (for any individual case or for groups of cases). The healthcare professional is fully responsible for the report, ensuring that relevant clinical history, typical day information, examination findings and observations are accurately recorded, and that the opinions that they offer are justified based on that evidence. Atos has no targets for the outcomes of assessments.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Atos Healthcare. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Hi Richie-from-the-Boro

    LiMA is an application which a qualified and approved health care professional uses to record clinical information and to construct a report. This is exactly the same scenario as can often be seen when visiting a GP surgery – many GPs now make their clinical notes on a specialised computer application rather than using paper records. The LiMA application does not write the report and LiMA does not “predict” what the outcome is going to be (for any individual case or for groups of cases). The healthcare professional is fully responsible for the report, ensuring that relevant clinical history, typical day information, examination findings and observations are accurately recorded, and that the opinions that they offer are justified based on that evidence. Atos has no targets for the outcomes of assessments.

    - thanks for your response ATOS rep

    While you are here can you confirm that you are subcontracting PIP assessmsnts to 'Capita Healthcare' who are currently recruiting [PIP] 'Contract Disability Assessors' for Wales, Central England and Northern Ireland :

    - "£40 per completed report this includes travel, usually within a 20 mile radius
    - permanent salary: £32k plus 23 days holiday, contributory pension scheme and flexible benefits travel expenses paid

    - About the role -

    Looking for a new and inspiring role, perhaps to expand your career, or maybe you want to add another string to your bow? As a Disability Assessor, you will be joining us at a really exciting time. Our growing team of highly skilled, qualified health care professionals have already realised the opportunity on offer. You can embark on a new and rewarding role, where you'll utilise your extensive clinical knowledge and natural skills of listening, observing and empathising with people. Undertaking a PIP assessment is similar to a functional assessment and you will be assessing how disabilities or impairments have an impact on activities of daily living. You will assess individuals who are making a claim for the Personal Independence Payment PIP, and unlike previous assessments of this nature, you will provide an opportunity for the claimant to tell their story. Because the role is community based, most PIP claimants will have a detailed, face~to~face assessment with an experienced Healthcare Professional. This is where Capita Health and wellbeing and you come in. What's in it for you? Are you a qualified Health care professional, Occupational Therapist, Nurse or Physiotherapist? For many healthcare professionals, becoming a Disability Assessor will be complementary to their existing role. And because both full time and part time positions are available on a contract or permanent basis you can fit them around your other commitments. Employed by Capita Health and wellbeing you will undertake a training programme that will build on your professional skills and equip you with the new skills essential for the role. Using your Occupational Therapy, Nursing, Phy Contact: Applications must be made via our website."

    Note : My italic & underline.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • schrodie
    schrodie Posts: 8,410 Forumite
    Have you seen this Richie concerning the LIMA software which controls and drives the WCA and writes the report for the DM?

    Here
  • Raksha
    Raksha Posts: 4,570 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker First Anniversary
    schrodie wrote: »
    Have you seen this Richie concerning the LIMA software which controls and drives the WCA and writes the report for the DM?

    Here

    That revision is dated 2004, so waaaay out of date by now I would imagine
    Please forgive me if my comments seem abrupt or my questions have obvious answers, I have a mental health condition which affects my ability to see things as others might.
  • Atos_Healthcare_representative
    Atos_Healthcare_representative Posts: 221 Organisation Representative
    - thanks for your response ATOS rep

    While you are here can you confirm that you are subcontracting PIP assessmsnts to 'Capita Healthcare' who are currently recruiting [PIP] 'Contract Disability Assessors' for Wales, Central England and Northern Ireland :

    - "£40 per completed report this includes travel, usually within a 20 mile radius
    - permanent salary: £32k plus 23 days holiday, contributory pension scheme and flexible benefits travel expenses paid

    - About the role -

    Looking for a new and inspiring role, perhaps to expand your career, or maybe you want to add another string to your bow? As a Disability Assessor, you will be joining us at a really exciting time. Our growing team of highly skilled, qualified health care professionals have already realised the opportunity on offer. You can embark on a new and rewarding role, where you'll utilise your extensive clinical knowledge and natural skills of listening, observing and empathising with people. Undertaking a PIP assessment is similar to a functional assessment and you will be assessing how disabilities or impairments have an impact on activities of daily living. You will assess individuals who are making a claim for the Personal Independence Payment PIP, and unlike previous assessments of this nature, you will provide an opportunity for the claimant to tell their story. Because the role is community based, most PIP claimants will have a detailed, face~to~face assessment with an experienced Healthcare Professional. This is where Capita Health and wellbeing and you come in. What's in it for you? Are you a qualified Health care professional, Occupational Therapist, Nurse or Physiotherapist? For many healthcare professionals, becoming a Disability Assessor will be complementary to their existing role. And because both full time and part time positions are available on a contract or permanent basis you can fit them around your other commitments. Employed by Capita Health and wellbeing you will undertake a training programme that will build on your professional skills and equip you with the new skills essential for the role. Using your Occupational Therapy, Nursing, Phy Contact: Applications must be made via our website."

    Note : My italic & underline.

    Hi Richie-from-the-Boro

    DWP would be able to answer questions about the PIP contracts. We don’t have the PIP contracts covering Wales, Central England and Northern Ireland. They would also be able to answer questions about the design of the PIP assessment, which you have underlined.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Atos Healthcare. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • schrodie
    schrodie Posts: 8,410 Forumite
    Raksha wrote: »
    That revision is dated 2004, so waaaay out of date by now I would imagine

    It may be out of date but at least it shows you the procedure and the reliance placed upon its "decisions"!!

    It is a case of the Computer says NO!!!!!
  • zzzLazyDaisy
    zzzLazyDaisy Posts: 12,497 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    -You will assess individuals who are making a claim for the Personal Independence Payment PIP, and unlike previous assessments of this nature, you will provide an opportunity for the claimant to tell their story.
    Note : My italic & underline.

    :eek: Just spat my coffee over my keyboard!
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
  • schrodie
    schrodie Posts: 8,410 Forumite
    Hi Richie-from-the-Boro

    We don’t have the PIP contracts covering Wales, Central England and Northern Ireland.

    The sick and disabled of Wales, Central England and Northern Ireland don't know how lucky they are and what a narrow escape they've had. God help the sick and disabled in rest of the country!
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