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    • JK33
    • By JK33 7th Dec 19, 9:40 PM
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    JK33
    Mortgage query
    • #1
    • 7th Dec 19, 9:40 PM
    Mortgage query 7th Dec 19 at 9:40 PM
    I received a letter from my mortgage company to tell me they have made a mistake when calculating my mortgage payments and I have overpaid by £182.50. I asked the bank if this overpayment made any difference to my mortgage term (which has 9 years 9 months left to run). They told me it didn’t make any difference so I asked for my overpayment to be paid into my bank account which they did. However when I checked my account online they have now added £182.50 to my outstanding mortgage balance which I feel is totally wrong. They have admitted it was their mistake yet I will end up paying for their mistake as they have added this to my mortgage. I have an online business and if I overcharge a customer I ‘take the hit’ of how much I have overcharged them but the bank are refusing to reimburse me yet it is their mistake. Your thoughts, views and expertise are very welcome.
Page 1
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 8th Dec 19, 7:06 AM
    • 38,376 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #2
    • 8th Dec 19, 7:06 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Dec 19, 7:06 AM
    You overpaid your capital by a small amount over a few months.

    You asked for the money back that is what they have done.


    I have an online business and if I overcharge a customer I Ďtake the hití of how much I have overcharged them
    You don't take any "hit" you just give back the money should not have had in the first place.


    There is a difference because your overpayment on the mortgage bought something a reduction in the debt.

    Your overcharged customer got nothing for their money.

    The equivalent would be if you charged for and sent two items when they only wanted one, they decide they want there money back you get your extra item back.

    Same with the mortgage provider you wanted your money back so they get their item back(restore the debt)
    • julicorn
    • By julicorn 8th Dec 19, 7:22 AM
    • 1,011 Posts
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    julicorn
    • #3
    • 8th Dec 19, 7:22 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Dec 19, 7:22 AM
    It's the equivalent of setting up a savings account you want to pay £300 into every month, and some admin error means you pay in £301 every month. At the end of the year, bank flags up that you've paid more into your savings account than you agreed to, and asks whether you'd prefer for it to stay in your savings account, or if you want that £12 back in your current account.
    There's been no loss to you either way, your money is just in a different account.
    Original mortgage: December 2017, £203,495
    MFW start: April 2018, £201,800
    Current: £148,780
    • ACG
    • By ACG 8th Dec 19, 9:33 AM
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    ACG
    • #4
    • 8th Dec 19, 9:33 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Dec 19, 9:33 AM
    You take the hit if you overcharge someone? Surely the customer is taking the hit if you overcharge them? Or do you mean you refund them the difference? In which case nobody is taking a hit... This is no different.

    You overpaid on your mortgage.
    You asked for that money back.
    They gave it you back.

    You are now in the position you would have been had the mistake not happened.

    Why would they just give you £180? They made a mistake and have asked if you want to leave it as it is or have the money back, you made your choice and they have done that.

    Struggling to see the problem to be honest.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • JK33
    • By JK33 8th Dec 19, 9:43 AM
    • 7 Posts
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    JK33
    • #5
    • 8th Dec 19, 9:43 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Dec 19, 9:43 AM
    They wrote to me saying itís their mistake I was completely unaware their calculations were wrong. So even though itís their mistake Iím still having to pay for their mistake so thatís why I think they should not add this amount to my outstanding balance. If I overpay with British Gas they give me my money back but donít in another way get that same amount back from me. If I overcharge a customer I pay them back and donít get that money back from them Iím another way. I do think the bank should pay me £182.50 and it shouldnít be added on to my outstanding mortgage amount as Iím now paying for their mistake. That is wrong
    • ACG
    • By ACG 8th Dec 19, 10:02 AM
    • 19,846 Posts
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    ACG
    • #6
    • 8th Dec 19, 10:02 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Dec 19, 10:02 AM
    You are looking at it wrong.

    If you overpay British Gas you are £182 in credit in effect, they owe you £182. They therefore give you your £182 and you are no longer in credit with them and they no longer owe you money. So that £182 came off your account.

    Your Mortgage balance was £182 lower than it should have been, they give it you back and the money comes off your account.

    Your British Gas analogy is basically using the same method as the bank uses but you are happy with one doing it and not the other.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • Nebulous2
    • By Nebulous2 8th Dec 19, 12:28 PM
    • 2,600 Posts
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    Nebulous2
    • #7
    • 8th Dec 19, 12:28 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Dec 19, 12:28 PM
    Op - I think you’ve misunderstood what happened. You paid more than you needed to in terms of the minimum monthly payment to the lender to repay your mortgage. However that money did not go to the lender themselves. It went into your mortgage account, and would ultimately have saved you money as it would have come of the capital and you would not have needed to pay interest on it.

    You chose to take it back, so the lender agreed and took it out of your mortgage account and gave it to you. No-one has taken a hit. The lender made a mistake, told you and when you took the money back you were in the same position as you would have been if the mistake hadn’t happened. If you hadn’t taken it back the mistake would have left you slightly better off.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 8th Dec 19, 1:09 PM
    • 6,860 Posts
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    csgohan4
    • #8
    • 8th Dec 19, 1:09 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Dec 19, 1:09 PM
    OP what reimbursement are you looking for? The bank made a mistake and gave it back to you.

    Adding it to your mortgage account is potentially doing you a favour, given now that saving accounts are at an all time low.

    Are you looking for compensation? If you are, you can try and make a complaint and get a token gesture, but compensation generally is to take you back to the position before the mistake. What distress has £182 less for x period has made it for you?
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • JK33
    • By JK33 8th Dec 19, 4:34 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    JK33
    • #9
    • 8th Dec 19, 4:34 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Dec 19, 4:34 PM
    If the bank has made a mistake why can’t they compensate me for £182.50 instead of adding that same amount to my mortgage account? I don’t think anyone is seeing it the way I see it. Of course that money has gone to the lender, they are making money on my mortgage every day. They have given me back money I have overpaid through THEIR mistake, not mine, I was blissfully unaware of this mistake until they told me. Yet they’ve added that amount to my outstanding mortgage account, so I still pay for their mistake. It is totally wrong and they should pay the £182.50, not add it to my outstanding balance. These fat cat bankers have got away with wrong doing for far too long. So in my case they never lose at all, yet I will/do.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 8th Dec 19, 5:08 PM
    • 6,860 Posts
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    csgohan4
    If the bank has made a mistake why can’t they compensate me for £182.50 instead of adding that same amount to my mortgage account? I don’t think anyone is seeing it the way I see it. Of course that money has gone to the lender, they are making money on my mortgage every day. They have given me back money I have overpaid through THEIR mistake, not mine, I was blissfully unaware of this mistake until they told me. Yet they’ve added that amount to my outstanding mortgage account, so I still pay for their mistake. It is totally wrong and they should pay the £182.50, not add it to my outstanding balance. These fat cat bankers have got away with wrong doing for far too long. So in my case they never lose at all, yet I will/do.
    Originally posted by JK33
    So they overcaluated your mortgage by 182.5 and they gave it to you back, so what's the problem? instead of reducing your capital you wanted it back to your account you requested.

    Bare in mind your mortgage interest rate maybe higher than your savings account interest rate

    What are you complaining of now?

    These fat cat banks are the same banks who lent you money, would you rather they didn't?

    Banks are run by people who can make mistakes, have you ever not made a mistake?
    Last edited by csgohan4; 08-12-2019 at 5:16 PM.
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • JMA74
    • By JMA74 8th Dec 19, 5:08 PM
    • 1,062 Posts
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    JMA74
    They should have refunded the funds and offered you an amount for inconvenience.

    I used to work in complaints for a bank and this type of admin error would be £25 at most unless you could prove some type of financial loss as a result of the error


    Sounds like they aren't recalculating rhr interest on the mortgage as a result of the refunding rhe money that was previously sitting in the mortgage and resulting in a lower balance being charged interest on.
    Perhaps that's enough to give you the payment you want.

    If they have now corrected the error, how much do you feel you are entitled to for distress and inconvenience?
    I am a Mortgage Adviser

    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 8th Dec 19, 5:16 PM
    • 14,305 Posts
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    davidmcn
    Of course that money has gone to the lender
    Originally posted by JK33
    No, it never went to the lender. It was sitting in your mortgage account all along. All they've done is move it from your mortgage account to your current account.

    they are making money on my mortgage every day
    If anything they've probably been making less money because they haven't charged you interest on the £182.50

    I was blissfully unaware of this mistake until they told me
    Yes, and if they hadn't bothered telling you, all that would have happened would be that at the end of the mortgage you'd have £182.50 less to repay.
    • ACG
    • By ACG 8th Dec 19, 5:39 PM
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    ACG
    If the bank has made a mistake why canít they compensate me for £182.50 instead of adding that same amount to my mortgage account? I donít think anyone is seeing it the way I see it. Of course that money has gone to the lender, they are making money on my mortgage every day. They have given me back money I have overpaid through THEIR mistake, not mine, I was blissfully unaware of this mistake until they told me. Yet theyíve added that amount to my outstanding mortgage account, so I still pay for their mistake. It is totally wrong and they should pay the £182.50, not add it to my outstanding balance. These fat cat bankers have got away with wrong doing for far too long. So in my case they never lose at all, yet I will/do.
    Originally posted by JK33
    THEY made a mistake. They told you about it and asked you if you would like the money back or to leave it where it is. Have you never made a mistake before?

    Going off your reasoning if they had not spotted the mistake for 20 years and you had overpaid by £10k they should then pay you £10,000 compensation by leaving your account as it is and refunding it?

    Nobody is seeing it your way because you are saying you want your cake (smaller mortgage balance) and to eat it (money refunded to your bank account).

    It is pretty clear you just want free money for what was a £200 mistake over a few months/years. It has not caused you any harm and you were actually benefiting from their mistake. I think this thread could turn into one of those where we all disagree and you still think you are in the right - so before I waste any more time, I will bow out.

    Good luck. Make a complaint, you might get £25-50 as a goodwill gesture but I cant see how they will give you £180 for putting right what is a relatively small mistake in the grand scheme of things.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • JK33
    • By JK33 8th Dec 19, 5:47 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    JK33
    As it was THEIR mistake by their own admission, they should give me back my overpayment which they have done but not charge it to my outstanding mortgage account because it was THEIR mistake. To resolve this, they should not add it on to my outstanding amount because I’m paying for THEIR mistake. They’ve added £182.50 on to my outstanding balance in the blink of an eye yet when I complete a mortgage application my credit is checked, my finances are under scrutiny but when they’ve made a mistake they can just add £182.50 to my outstanding amount. No jumping through hoops then is there to be approved for lending?
    • JK33
    • By JK33 8th Dec 19, 5:51 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    JK33
    And before you all quickly reply with a view I’m thick and I don’t understand or I’m looking at it in the wrong way, I can assure you I’m not. Intellectually I have a PHd and i work in the financial sector. And yes of course I want the banks to lend me money but when they do, they sit pretty earning loads of money from me borrowing from them so £182.50 to them is a drop in the ocean. I firmly believe we shouldn’t just roll over, we should fight for what we believe in when we know something is wrong
    • FtbDreaming
    • By FtbDreaming 8th Dec 19, 6:01 PM
    • 154 Posts
    • 289 Thanks
    FtbDreaming
    So they offered for you to leave it on the account or have it back. You chose to have the money back. You cant expect them to leave it on the account too. Then you'd be £182.50 better off than the start.

    Youve had a little bit of spare money back before xmas that you wasnt expecting. Your mortgage balance is what it would have been had you never paid the £182.50. Just chill out theres bigger things in life to worry about.
    • gozaimasu
    • By gozaimasu 8th Dec 19, 6:06 PM
    • 523 Posts
    • 1,939 Thanks
    gozaimasu
    Make a complaint, asking for £182.50 in your bank account plus £182.50 taken back off the mortgage balance. Accept £25-£50 compensation when they offer it.


    Not sure why you've come on here first instead of complaining to them directly.
    Forum etiquette - Be nice to all moneysavers.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 8th Dec 19, 6:09 PM
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    davidmcn
    I have an online business and if I overcharge a customer I Ďtake the hití of how much I have overcharged them
    Originally posted by JK33
    So if a customer paid you £182.50 too much, you'd refund the £182.50 - and then pay them another £182.50 on top of that? Really?
    • ACG
    • By ACG 8th Dec 19, 6:11 PM
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    ACG
    No hoops to jump through because they are not lending you more money. You overpaid, they gave you the over payment back. As already mentioned, you are in the exact same situation you would have been had the mistake not happened. Let that sink in.

    I am not going to sit here and call you thick, I would like to think we are all adults here. But you are not paying for their mistake. Nobody is paying for their mistake - does somebody have to pay for it?
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 8th Dec 19, 7:13 PM
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    getmore4less
    No hoops to jump through because they are not lending you more money. You overpaid, they gave you the over payment back. As already mentioned, you are in the exact same situation you would have been had the mistake not happened. Let that sink in.

    I am not going to sit here and call you thick, I would like to think we are all adults here. But you are not paying for their mistake. Nobody is paying for their mistake - does somebody have to pay for it?
    Originally posted by ACG
    They are actually in a better situation because they were charged less interest while those overpayments sat in the account.

    They did lose any interest they may have had on the money in their own savings account.

    What is surprising for someone who claims to be financially competent they did not check the amounts involved..
    Last edited by getmore4less; 09-12-2019 at 5:16 AM.
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