47kg Propane Calor Gas Prices - What are you paying?

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  • Hi
    Paid 45 plus 2.25vat last week but just had a letter from countrywide that future prices are increased by 7.5p per kg plus vat
  • Just bought a cylinder for the first time in ages. Well, pleased to report that the prices in Northern Ireland have at last plummeted. One single 47Kg bottle cost me only £87 delivered!! :rotfl:

    Hi,
    Can you tell me where you bought this please & was it Calor & do you know if Calor regulators fit Flogas?
    Thanks
  • Hi,
    Can you tell me where you bought this please & was it Calor & do you know if Calor regulators fit Flogas?
    Thanks

    Forget name of company, but contact name of delivery guy is Terry, on 0792 1000 070. I've had gas from both and they fitted fine... (He delivered within 1 hour of me calling!)
  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737
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    edited 3 January 2014 at 8:38PM
    Old news - May 2013 - from Ireland but may be of interest. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/gas-suppliers-are-ordered-to-pay-400000-damages-over-refill-scams-29274216.html

    Calor and Flogas have 86% of cylinder market in Ireland. But:
    Mr Justice John Cooke said he had heard evidence on behalf of Flogas that company personnel became concerned in early 2011 at apparent changes in the pattern of sales.

    There were complaints from retailers that rival products were being sold by competitors at prices considerably lower than would be justifiable.
    The company carried out an investigation of Langan Fuels and found cylinders which had been illegally refilled.
    Calor and Flogas received compensation for loss of profits.

    There have been some interesting posts in this thread from the trade about wholesale pricing in the UK by the majors....particularly about wholesale prices for filled cylinders staying high when the wholesale price of gas on the international market has fallen. "Justifiable"?
    ..
  • Old news - May 2013 - from Ireland but may be of interest. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/gas-suppliers-are-ordered-to-pay-400000-damages-over-refill-scams-29274216.html

    Calor and Flogas have 86% of cylinder market in Ireland. But:
    Calor and Flogas received compensation for loss of profits.

    There have been some interesting posts in this thread from the trade about wholesale pricing in the UK by the majors....particularly about wholesale prices for filled cylinders staying high when the wholesale price of gas on the international market has fallen. "Justifiable"?
    ..

    Darn, was totally unaware of this 'scam'! Would have been only too delighted at buying a cheaper 'name' as I don't give a toss what the brand is. As you say, Calor & Flogas have a monopoly here in Northern Ireland which is why they are pennies in tune with each other charging virtually £100/cylinder - a scandal that even the Northern Ireland Consumer Council won't take on. I've been in extensive email comms with them, and they just don't care...
  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737
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    edited 5 January 2014 at 12:01PM
    Darn, was totally unaware of this 'scam'! Would have been only too delighted at buying a cheaper 'name' as I don't give a toss what the brand is. As you say, Calor & Flogas have a monopoly here in Northern Ireland which is why they are pennies in tune with each other charging virtually £100/cylinder - a scandal that even the Northern Ireland Consumer Council won't take on. I've been in extensive email comms with them, and they just don't care...

    May I suggest you complain to the Office of Fair Trading? Several of us in GB have had a lot of dealings with them over bulk LPG - with some results. Yes, even some improvements to Flogas's (and others') contracts! Still rather frustrating as several of us think they swallowed the assurances of the trade body, UKLPG, rather too easily.

    OFT: http://www.oft.gov.uk/

    OFT has already looked at Calor's dominance in the NI cylinder market - under the Competition Act 1998, but closed the case in 2003: there's a mention - page 24 - in this report: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/ca98_case_closures/2003.pdf

    We've found that OFT is interested in hearing that things haven't improved ..and then they seem to go for 'voluntary' agreements (use the 'Search this Thread' facility on the 'Bulk LPG - Cheapest Supplier /supply route' thread if you want to waste an hour, or two!).

    Best wishes!

    PS You might want to get this thread made a 'sticky'? We used the 'Bulk LPG ..' thread - a sticky - to help co-ordinate responses to OFT (plus a lot of pms, etc!).
    ..
  • May I suggest you complain to the Office of Fair Trading?

    I have reported this issue on several occasions to the Northern Ireland Consumer Council. A pretty toothless watchdog who they themselves are under review as to their future as they're crap!! They have come up with responses to me that are more in keeping with a good episode of 'Yes Minister', rather than a consumer help body!!

    (Unfortunately, there is no OFT based in Northern Ireland)
  • I have reported this issue on several occasions to the Northern Ireland Consumer Council. A pretty toothless watchdog who they themselves are under review as to their future as they're crap!! They have come up with responses to me that are more in keeping with a good episode of 'Yes Minister', rather than a consumer help body!!

    (Unfortunately, there is no OFT based in Northern Ireland)

    Yes, I read that you'd been in contact with the NI Consumer Council.


    I presume the Competition Act 1998 applies to NI too.


    A search for "Northern Ireland" in the search box on the OFT website has just produced 1140 hits. So whether there is a physical office or not in NI it would seem that the OFT deals with NI issues.


    HTH.

  • I presume the Competition Act 1998 applies to NI too.

    Yes it does, it covers the 'UK' of which we are a part...
  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737
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    edited 5 January 2014 at 10:15PM
    You want cheap / cheaper / cheapest LPG cylinders in N. Ireland. But the price is far more expensive than similar cylinders in GB. The prices of the two dominant suppliers, Flogas and Calor (or Calor Gas Northern Ireland or CGNI) are about the same. There seems to be a lack of independent suppliers and a lack of competition in NI.

    This seems to be a case for the UK's Office of Fair Trading and an inquiry under the Competition Act 1998.

    Based on experience with Bulk LPG I suggest a NI LPG cylinder user sends a brief email to [EMAIL="enquiries@oft.gsi.gov.uk"]enquiries@oft.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL] saying they want an inquiry into the NI LPG cylinder market and asking who the case officer is. At this stage I'd just include the up-to-date prices for Calor and Flogas locally, the web price for Flogas GB, the scarcity/absence of independent suppliers..and refer to the 2003 report I linked to in an earlier post (#224).

    You only want the name of a case officer at this point! When you get one, post it on the forum and ask people to email him/her with their local prices. It would be helpful if someone has the time to assemble lots of evidence and send it to OFT (if OFT decide to investigate it's their job to do this - but you don't want them just to have a cosy word with Calor and Flogas, accept their assurances about a healthy, competitive market, blah, blah....and do nothing). I suggest copying politicians and ministers into emails, and involving 'Which' (which has some interesting powers). (For Bulk LPG we found most MPs - and the minister - useless ...but we turned up a few stars who were really dogged).

    PS I suggest every post on this topic on MSE is written so it's picked up in web searches - so "cheap / cheaper / cheapest", etc.

    PPS Emails to OFT - short, snappy, full of facts but not rants (but that's teaching g'ma to suck eggs!). Remember OFT deal with markets NOT individual personal complaints (that's more the job of the consumer council). Sorry about long post. Good luck.
    ..
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