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  • FIRST POST
    • taurusgb
    • By taurusgb 15th Sep 19, 9:28 PM
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    taurusgb
    Fraud (disputed) credit card transaction with Lloyds
    • #1
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:28 PM
    Fraud (disputed) credit card transaction with Lloyds 15th Sep 19 at 9:28 PM
    On our way to catch a ferry yesterday, we filled up at a Total garage in Calais. The cost for the diesel we filled up with was 54 Euro. Tonight I logged into my Lloyds account to check what exchange rate I had been charged and saw that there were two transactions listed under pending for the Total garage, the one I made and another for 134 (the euro amount wasn't available).


    I've just got off the phone to Lloyds and I'm furious. Firstly I had to wait 30 minutes to speak to an advisor, only to be told that even though I "say" I did not make the second purchase, it is not counted as fraud because I had already made a transaction with Total, this apparantly means a fraud can never be committed with any provider that you have ever made a purchase from. It is therefore "only" a dispute, and as a dispute, I cannot take any action until the amount moves from pending to my account. After this happens, they will investigate and it "may" be resolved in my favour. He further went on to say that he couldn't say whether they would ring-fence the disputed amount, that he had no idea how long an investigation might take. I finally gave up when he asked me IF I would like the call logged? For goodness sake - why wouldn't that be automatic?

    Anyway, can anyone tell me please what the usual timeline is in cases like this? and what, if anything, I can do to get this sorted out swiftly?
    People Say that life's the thing - but I prefer reading
    The difference between a misfortune and a calamity is this: If Gladstone fell jnto the Thames it would be a misfortune. But if someone dragged him out again, that would be a calamity - Benjamin Disreali
Page 1
    • Lorian
    • By Lorian 15th Sep 19, 9:34 PM
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    Lorian
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:34 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:34 PM
    Did you put the card in the pump to pay? maybe its a 150 euro pre-auth that will just disappear.
    • zx81
    • By zx81 15th Sep 19, 9:36 PM
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    zx81
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:36 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:36 PM
    Given they're both pending, wait to see what gets charged. The larger one is likely to drop off.

    If both, it's far more likely to be an error than fraud and should be easily resolved.
    • worried jim
    • By worried jim 15th Sep 19, 9:37 PM
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    worried jim
    • #4
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:37 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:37 PM
    Did you put the card in the pump to pay? maybe its a 150 euro pre-auth that will just disappear.
    Originally posted by Lorian
    Sounds like pre auth. If it's not corrected in 48 hours it's time to call back.
    "Only two things are infinite-the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein
    • taurusgb
    • By taurusgb 15th Sep 19, 9:37 PM
    • 893 Posts
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    taurusgb
    • #5
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:37 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:37 PM
    But would the correct amount appear as pending as well if that was the case? and why so much?
    People Say that life's the thing - but I prefer reading
    The difference between a misfortune and a calamity is this: If Gladstone fell jnto the Thames it would be a misfortune. But if someone dragged him out again, that would be a calamity - Benjamin Disreali
    • Lorian
    • By Lorian 15th Sep 19, 9:39 PM
    • 4,851 Posts
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    Lorian
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:39 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:39 PM
    No typically the right mount will get charged and the pre-auth will eventually disappear. can take a few days/week.

    Happens in some pumps over here too (99) and in hotels...
    • taurusgb
    • By taurusgb 15th Sep 19, 9:42 PM
    • 893 Posts
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    taurusgb
    • #7
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:42 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Sep 19, 9:42 PM
    Thank you everyone, fingers crossed that it is a pre-authorisation, but I am still less than impressed with the attitude of the Lloyds employee - and even less impressed with Lloyds if he was correct on all he said.
    People Say that life's the thing - but I prefer reading
    The difference between a misfortune and a calamity is this: If Gladstone fell jnto the Thames it would be a misfortune. But if someone dragged him out again, that would be a calamity - Benjamin Disreali
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 15th Sep 19, 11:59 PM
    • 11,411 Posts
    • 14,171 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #8
    • 15th Sep 19, 11:59 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Sep 19, 11:59 PM
    even though I "say" I did not make the second purchase, it is not counted as fraud because I had already made a transaction with Total, this apparantly means a fraud can never be committed with any provider that you have ever made a purchase from.
    Originally posted by taurusgb
    You're not the first and won't be the last to be bandying around the F word in circumstances like this, but the reality is that all you need to be doing is to be declaring to your card company that a transaction was unauthorised by you, following which they'll go through the standard process for resolving this. No need to allege criminal conduct, or any benefit in doing so - as above, in this case it's highly likely to be a transient pre-authorisation that'll drop off automatically rather than an actual deliberate attempt to remove money from your account unlawfully....
    • Socajam
    • By Socajam 16th Sep 19, 12:04 AM
    • 502 Posts
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    Socajam
    • #9
    • 16th Sep 19, 12:04 AM
    • #9
    • 16th Sep 19, 12:04 AM
    Can you not log into your account and send them a message?
    That's what I do with Barclaycard. I always receive a reply within 24 hours.
    • born again
    • By born again 16th Sep 19, 6:56 PM
    • 412 Posts
    • 195 Thanks
    born again
    You wont be the first or last that has claimed fraud on the fact that in the EU, when you use a pre-pay pump, they authorise the FULL amount you can take and then debit for the correct amount. As the amounts do not match they often show together in your available balance.
    They tried to do this in the UK either end of last year or earlier this year..... Did not last long due to complaints from people with no funds left in their accounts due to a pending 99.

    Just be thankful that it was not taken on as fraud. Or you would have been stuck in the EU with no card...
    There is nothing you can do to speed things up. The system will resolve itself in due course.
    • taurusgb
    • By taurusgb 16th Sep 19, 9:30 PM
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    taurusgb
    Thanks for all the responses, interesting - although still irritated. We were in Europe for over a fortnight, filled up 7 times, all garages except one, had prepay pumps, none of the others did this, only the Total garage.


    Also, if this is such a "normal" thing to happen, why didn't the LLoyds advisor say so?
    People Say that life's the thing - but I prefer reading
    The difference between a misfortune and a calamity is this: If Gladstone fell jnto the Thames it would be a misfortune. But if someone dragged him out again, that would be a calamity - Benjamin Disreali
    • zx81
    • By zx81 17th Sep 19, 4:31 AM
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    zx81
    Because you spoke to a call centre agent. They won't know the subtleties of pending transactions.
    • Penelopa.Pitstop
    • By Penelopa.Pitstop 17th Sep 19, 3:45 PM
    • 597 Posts
    • 224 Thanks
    Penelopa.Pitstop
    Thanks for all the responses, interesting - although still irritated. We were in Europe for over a fortnight, filled up 7 times, all garages except one, had prepay pumps, none of the others did this, only the Total garage.


    Also, if this is such a "normal" thing to happen, why didn't the LLoyds advisor say so?
    Originally posted by taurusgb
    I get pre-authorisation for fuel pre-payment on every card (usually 99) in UK and it's hanging there until it changes to actual amount and it's posted. Some cards have pre-authorisation for 99 and actual payment and then pre-auth. drops. So it's the same as in Europe, just different currency.

    The only annoying thing that happened to me, is 4 pre-authorisation for 150 euro in Livigno, but all dropped next day and so far, I wasn't charged for fuel since July.

    • born again
    • By born again 17th Sep 19, 6:10 PM
    • 412 Posts
    • 195 Thanks
    born again

    Also, if this is such a "normal" thing to happen, why didn't the LLoyds advisor say so?
    Originally posted by taurusgb
    Not exactly something anyone is trained on in a call center, they are trained on more important stuff (meeting customer needs is the current speak...) You can get lucky and get one that has come across it before, mostly long serving staff.
    It will be once you get through to the fraud/disputes teams that it is part of the role. Even then it's not always something that is actually trained. More experience.
    • Lorian
    • By Lorian 17th Sep 19, 6:30 PM
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    Lorian
    I've noticed ASDA is only pre-authing 1 now. not sure when it changed from 99 - could be some time ago I don't take a lot of notice of it.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 17th Sep 19, 6:47 PM
    • 35,095 Posts
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    DCFC79
    I've noticed ASDA is only pre-authing 1 now. not sure when it changed from 99 - could be some time ago I don't take a lot of notice of it.
    Originally posted by Lorian

    Cant recall when it changed but there was a big fuss over it as people with not enough in the account to cover the actual cost of fuel were declined, declined due to the pre auth of 99.
    • NutWorld
    • By NutWorld 18th Sep 19, 8:13 AM
    • 50 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    NutWorld
    On our way to catch a ferry yesterday, we filled up at a Total garage in Calais. The cost for the diesel we filled up with was 54 Euro. Tonight I logged into my Lloyds account to check what exchange rate I had been charged and saw that there were two transactions listed under pending for the Total garage, the one I made and another for 134 (the euro amount wasn't available).


    I've just got off the phone to Lloyds and I'm furious. Firstly I had to wait 30 minutes to speak to an advisor, only to be told that even though I "say" I did not make the second purchase, it is not counted as fraud because I had already made a transaction with Total, this apparantly means a fraud can never be committed with any provider that you have ever made a purchase from. It is therefore "only" a dispute, and as a dispute, I cannot take any action until the amount moves from pending to my account. After this happens, they will investigate and it "may" be resolved in my favour. He further went on to say that he couldn't say whether they would ring-fence the disputed amount, that he had no idea how long an investigation might take. I finally gave up when he asked me IF I would like the call logged? For goodness sake - why wouldn't that be automatic?

    Anyway, can anyone tell me please what the usual timeline is in cases like this? and what, if anything, I can do to get this sorted out swiftly?
    Originally posted by taurusgb
    There is no fraud, or even a valid basis for a genuine dispute at present as these amounts are only pending.

    Calm down and wait to see what transpires. Either the pending transactions will fall away or will be posted to your account (not necessarily the same for both pending transactions i.e. one may fall away, one may be posted).

    Then decide if you wish to dispute the posted transaction (if any).
    Last edited by NutWorld; 18-09-2019 at 8:21 AM.
    • NutWorld
    • By NutWorld 18th Sep 19, 8:19 AM
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    NutWorld
    But would the correct amount appear as pending as well if that was the case? and why so much?
    Originally posted by taurusgb
    Yes, the correct amount may well be posted as pending until it is posted to your account. As it's an overseas transaction, it may take a little longer to be posted to your account than a UK transaction would take.

    I don't understand the "and why so much?" question. If it's the amount of fuel you purchased, the amount you authorised, and it's the correct amount, then presumably that is how much the fuel cost at the retailer you bought it from.
    • Fingerbobs
    • By Fingerbobs 18th Sep 19, 8:22 AM
    • 778 Posts
    • 316 Thanks
    Fingerbobs
    I suppose this is one of the reasons the banks were reluctant to allow customers to view pending transactions - it creates a lot of anguish over things that will probably be completely resolved before the transactions are posted.
    • born again
    • By born again 18th Sep 19, 9:58 AM
    • 412 Posts
    • 195 Thanks
    born again
    I don't understand the "and why so much?" question. If it's the amount of fuel you purchased, the amount you authorised, and it's the correct amount, then presumably that is how much the fuel cost at the retailer you bought it from.
    Originally posted by NutWorld
    Because the auth amount to start with was for the max amount you could have received from the pump. Not the actual amount of fuel received, which was also showing.
    Imagine filling a car up a several times on a long run in Europe. Not much in your account and you would find no available funds... Not nice.
    Europe works pay at the pump in reverse to the UK. We are 1 or 2. Europe is the max you can get. I known this for over 10 years.
    It was tried in the UK as it is what Visa/Mastercard wanted to bring everything in line. May 2018. It failed due to the number of complaints from people who run accounts (no fault of their own) close to limits all the time. So they ended up not being able to buy other items after filling up with fuel.
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