On-grid domestic battery storage

Martyn1981 · 18 October 2017 at 5:29PM

Apologies for late posting, my fault not his, I forgot.

Electricity imported - 173kWh (120kWh in Sept 2016)
Generated - 223.9kWh ( 204kWh in Sept 2016)
Battery discharge - 82.8kWh
ImmerSUN diversion - 36kWh (62kWh in Sept 2016)

But I'm now up to 745kWh of avoided electricity import, which is about £135 saved on the bill since install. I wonder if with 3 months still to go I could possibly get near 1MWh of battery discharge in the 12 months , so maybe £180 "saved"?

Once a year is up, in December, or perhaps next Jan, when he has a calendar year, we'll post a summary, thoughts, opinions etc etc.

Martyn1981 · 18 October 2017 at 5:35PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

My thoughts too, so a wait and see policy will be good here.

I've now had a better read of the site and found something very interesting, good or bad, depending on how I think it through:-

The FAQs state this:

Now that suggests to me that all export is credited at 14.7p/kWh.

So I currently export about 2,800kWh pa and get paid for about 2,100 at 3.3p/kWh, so £411 v's £70.

Or assuming I use about 900kWh more thanks to the battery, then perhaps £297 more income, plus increased leccy saving of 900 x 12p* = £108.

* I've used 12p since that's what I pay now, so it's false economy to increase savings by increasing price.

So that's the plus side. But, they operate this credit system for exports to make up for the added cost of imported units that 'they' import for grid balancing ..... which sounds fine, till I thought about battery efficiency.

What if they import 1,000kWh, then discharge 900kWh (10% losses?), doesn't that mean that import clocks up £147, but export credit is £132.30, giving you a net loss/cost of £14.70 on your bill?

All of this is total speculation, but I've put my name down to learn more, though as mentioned previously, if I was going to be part of something like this, then I'd want a big Powerwall II, with 5kWh or so, of use reserved for me.

To all, I'm not trying to be positive nor negative about this particular scheme. I think the idea is fascinating, so something to watch as storage settles in to the UK.

Just to say that a while back I registered an interest, and a survey is now booked.

I'm not trying to waste their time, I'm genuinely interested in the concept, and happy to 'waste' a few hours chatting with the guy ... take one for the MSE team .. perhaps!

Once I know more, and can actually make some sense of all the terms, conditions and FAQ's I'll try to explain more, and hopefully Z (or any one else) can look at the numbers and give thoughts.

If it'll breakeven, that's good enough, not exactly money-saving, but it would be nice to find out how such stuff operates in the real world, and supply some feedback to others.

Watch this space, but don't hold your breath.

Martyn1981 · 19 October 2017 at 6:34AM

Just copying the info that ard123en posted, as it looks interesting, so, yet another to add to the watch list.

ard123en wrote: »

What are others thoughts on these ?
http://orison.energy/products/
Not sure that they are legally ok for the UK as plugged into socket not fusebox

Thanks ard123en.

Martyn1981 · 19 October 2017 at 7:05AM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

So that's the plus side. But, they operate this credit system for exports to make up for the added cost of imported units that 'they' import for grid balancing ..... which sounds fine, till I thought about battery efficiency.

What if they import 1,000kWh, then discharge 900kWh (10% losses?), doesn't that mean that import clocks up £147, but export credit is £132.30, giving you a net loss/cost of £14.70 on your bill?

Just a short update as I've read the FAQ's and T&C's in slightly more detail.

1. My earlier concerns are valid as I've found this:

(ii) a monthly export credit to your energy account for any solar energy exported rather than being used, or stored in the battery for later use, and the credit of any additional electricity that is drawn and subsequently exported back to the grid (exclusive of battery round trip losses) for national grid balancing or energy trading activities that enable us to provide you with your Battery Credit. For example, if your export meter shows 100 kWh of energy has been exported, and you are an OVO Energy ‘Better Energy" customer (with a unit rate of 14.7p per kWh as of 16.09.2017), then your Export Credit will equal 100 * 0.147 = £14.70.

2. Massive concern regarding 'overpriced' batt making its money back on the export and battery credits:

After your first year, we’ll review OVO SolarStore (Beta) to see if we can make any improvements. This means that the Battery Credit and Export Credit could change, but we’ll let you know at least 30 days before any change.

that's a bit scary. :eek:

3. However, there appears to be a hint at some battery flexibility:

How long is my battery warranty?

Your warranty is between you and the manufacturer of the battery, which may vary depending on which one you buy.

Martyn1981 · 23 October 2017 at 2:41PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Watch this space, but don't hold your breath.

Me again. Site survey complete.

I don't think a choice of batteries is possible as the measurements for suitable location were extremely specific, so I think choice may have gone out of the window.

I've now asked the helpdesk for some clarification on their right to change the deal (battery & export credit) after one year, since that could ... in the very worst circumstances .... be seen as a 'bait and switch' scam, since the battery appears to be overpriced, but this is 'accepted' because of the suggestion of annual income. Remove the income, and you are left holding the [STRIKE]baby[/STRIKE] battery.

Early days, so not complaining about the company, but I'm not sure anyone would jump in at this stage, based on the package and rules currently laid out.

Keep watching this space, but keep breathing, calmly and deeply.

Martyn1981 · 24 October 2017 at 4:58PM

Sonnen are at it again, with another big deployment. Can't help thinking the market and prices will start to turn very soon (fingers crossed).

sonnen to invest €80m to install home storage systems to 20,000 homes in Italy

In the coming 24 months, the newly founded Energy Alliance Italia plans to equip 20,000 households in Italy with a PV system and power storage unit that will be linked to a decentralized energy community.

The Alliance includes companies such as Supersolar, Smile Energy, CDNE, Rex Energy and Sky NRG among others, and that 20,000 figure represents one-third of the currently installed home PV batteries in Germany, which is the biggest residential storage market in Europe.

Come on UK government, you want storage, we want storage .... let's make a deal?

Martyn1981 · 3 November 2017 at 5:05PM

Quick update on OVO, they've come back after the survey to say that the install can be done and will cost £300 .... plus £4,800 for the battery.

Still no response to any and all questions I've raised throughout regarding system losses, choice of battery, potential 'bait and switch scam' on their ability to change terms and conditions etc etc ....

...... but the option to buy is moving along very well.

And as always, any questions, just click on the link and ask away. I'm starting to picture a dusty computer, sitting in a dusty room, where no-one ever ventures - kind of Halloween'esque.

Martyn1981 · 7 November 2017 at 11:22AM

Not sure exactly where to 'stick this' (no suggestions necessary thank you).

I just thought the graph of Li-ion costs was an eye-opener. Could prices half again, well they were twice as high in 2014 $540/kWh v's $273 in 2016!

Also, it's probably the vast expansion in automotive battery production that will (as a side effect) benefit stationary storage.

Canada’s Largest Retailer Unveils Fully Electric Class 8 Truck

Martyn1981 · 9 November 2017 at 4:28PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Quick update on OVO,

And another one.

I did get a response to all my questions in the end, apparently I hadn't received earlier replies(!).

My main bone of contention was their ability to change the contract terms, on which the vast bulk of the payments are based, after one year. And they confirmed that they can do this, though it could go up as well as down.

Based on that and other information, I sent them my thoughts on the scheme (see below), and they have today thanked me, and will put the thoughts/comments forward for future review - well, one can hope.

Hiya SST(?), thanks for the response.

So, my thoughts.

The battery you are offering is approximately 100% more expensive than other 4kWh models available. And taking size into account, approx. 200% more expensive than a Tesla Powerwall II.

Given the relatively small size of the battery, its use by OVO for grid stabilisation will wipe out the warranty, and possibly lower the useable capacity of the battery quite rapidly.

The ability to change both the export and battery credit payments after one year is not concerning, it is terrifying.

Based on all of these factors, I can only conclude that this is a ‘bait and switch’ scam, selling a battery at an inflated price, based on high annual returns, that will most likely disappear after one year, leaving customers holding the battery, a battery whose performance will be dropping, and whose warranty has been exhausted.

I think you need to offer a battery at half the price, with a ten year warranty, and export/battery credits of half what you are proposing, but also with a 10yr contract, or term changes that will be within min/max ranges of say 80%-120% over the 10yr period.

In summary, I think the idea is a good one, but this specific deal and battery package is a nightmare and a looming consumer rights court case and PR disaster for OVO.

I hope this feedback helps.

Mart.

I do genuinely believe that the idea is a good one, and sharing services could well be the way to make storage viable earlier, but I'm not convinced by this particular package.

BTW SST stands for solar store team, and appears to be the way they sign off their correspondence. Probably just me, but being asked to spend £5k on something, whilst receiving un-named correspondence did not boost my confidence. They have not been at all rude nor unfriendly, but 'at ease' I was not put.

Martyn1981 · 10 November 2017 at 3:46PM

Buy your own battery but get £50 pa from Moixa?

Moixa moves to aggregate third party batteries with new government funding

Home battery storage company Moixa is to expand its GridShare aggregation platform to include third party units for the first time after securing over £250,000 from the UK government.

The company was awarded £267,750 from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy’s Energy Entrepreneurs Fund to expand the platform to a wider range of batteries outside of its own units.

GridShare aggregates the capacity of multiple distributed batteries to create a virtual power plant, which is intended to deliver services on demand to the national grid, local electricity networks and utilities.

In return, participating households are supplemented with an annual income of £50 on top of the savings provided by the battery itself. Until now, this platform has only been used on Moixa’s own batteries, with the company supporting its work with additional patent protection on aggregating smart batteries across multiple homes to provide services to the grid

Here's a link to Gridshare, and the income paragraph, though it looks like it needs updating:

How Much Can I Earn Selling Electricity?

Depending on the type of battery you own you should be able to choose between a “Fixed Income” or “Profit Share” membership.

A Fixed Income membership earns you £50 a year, guaranteed; however this is only available to owners of Moixa-branded batteries.

A Profit Share membership will pay out 50% of the profits generated by your Smart Battery system. This is available to both owners of Moixa-branded batteries as well as batteries manufactured by one of our approved partners.

Earnings from both memberships will be paid annually.

On-grid domestic battery storage

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